Some Perspective From a Comm. Day Attendee

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by PlyrzNumber1

and BTW, I dont want any of the 8 guys who were flown to Orlando to come back and say "EA is lazy give the license back to 2K" ... it isn't a black and white thing. It just seems that since those 8 guys returned they've been apologist/praising everything about EA and the dev team, and I dont blame them. I'm sure you met the team, and they were friendly guys, bought you some drinks, and you got to know them. It's hard to knock on the team at this point, especially after you were awarded the privilege of flying down there and playing madden .. how cool is that? If EA flew me out to Orlando .. and took a chance on choosing me... i'd come back bright eyed and bushy tailed saying whatever I had to so that I would be flown out there again. And my problem with the EA/Tiburon team isn't laziness. I dont think it's guys who sit around playing paper football in their cubicles. In my opinion, the team simply lacks ability. I play a certain PC game for hours and hours everyday ... and read everything I can to improve my skills on the game. At the end of the day, no matter what, there are some people just more talented then I am. It doesn't matter how much I work to polish my skills, or how much effort I put into the game. There's certain people who are simply better at the game than I am. I think in the case of Tiburon/Madden .. I dont question their work ethic .. i question their lack of talent given their track record over the last 4-5 years. I understand this is an unpopular opinion .. and it's no longer ok to have an unpopular opinion here ... but, whatever.

To me this just says you are selective in what you want to read. Several of us have criticized some of the things we think needs to be addressed and if not then we'll be disappointed. What you see is excitement about the possibilities of the new stuff they CAN do. But they have not DONE it yet. And we are willing to wait it out and see what happens instead of making a judgment at this point. This is not about any of us going back again because we probably will not. They will select a new group if they bring anyone back.

[shift9k]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

I have never said that this game was better than 2k5... in fact, I've specifically said it's not, but had the potential to be, depending on the tuning over the last 2 months.

I didnt know this. Its kind of disturbing..
hmm..

Well I havent been here for as long as most of you. I have done a good amount of lurking. I see why people have that preception. Its common sense really. I dont see why people are giving them trouble though. If they are puppets now then they are putting their necks on the line along with EA. I'll put a little humanity into and give them the benefit of the doubt.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by shift9k

I didnt know this. Its kind of disturbing.. hmm..

It's hard to compare a game like 2k5, with all it's polish, with a game that's in alpha. So long as tuning issues are covered, I know I will be putting 2k5 away finally. But you've gotta understand, the game we played was full of placeholders. There was an "A" button icon sticking out of the 50 yard line, the referees were trying to catch our punts, linebackers didn't react to the run in zone coverage... very obvious things that will be corrected were wrong. The game I played is not better than 2k5... but even in it's incomplete and broken state, it was better than Madden 09.

But the reason I say it's not better than 2k5 isn't even that. There is a pacing issue. One of the things that pulled me into 2k5 was the pace of the game. It felt like a football game. Each play was an event. Madden has always felt like a series of drives, where as 2k5 brought you into each individual battle. I don't know how to explain it any better than that, only that 2k5 captured something that Madden 10 hasn't yet succeeded in capturing. The good news is it may yet, and I think it's the presentation that is going to be the reason. We'll see.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by PlyrzNumber1

It just seems that since those 8 guys returned they've been apologist/praising everything about EA and the dev team, and I dont blame them. I'm sure you met the team, and they were friendly guys, bought you some drinks, and you got to know them. It's hard to knock on the team at this point, especially after you were awarded the privilege of flying down there and playing madden .. how cool is that?

So you totally ignored this?:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039548765

And my question is why?

Why not go back a page and read it, then do a search and confirm it all to be true.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzRule

To me this just says you are selective in what you want to read.

And that my friend sums it all up.

I'll have to use the ignore list again. It's a shame that people have to hate or attack so often with no evidence to back up their claims. If there was a shred of truth to what's been said, then I might be able to consider it, but it's so incredibly ridiculous and overall dead wrong, you can't even entertain it.

[PlyrzNumber1]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

It's hard to compare a game like 2k5, with all it's polish, with a game that's in alpha. So long as tuning issues are covered, I know I will be putting 2k5 away finally. But you've gotta understand, the game we played was full of placeholders. There was an "A" button icon sticking out of the 50 yard line, the referees were trying to catch our punts, linebackers didn't react to the run in zone coverage... very obvious things that will be corrected were wrong. The game I played is not better than 2k5... but even in it's incomplete and broken state, it was better than Madden 09. But the reason I say it's not better than 2k5 isn't even that. There is a pacing issue. One of the things that pulled me into 2k5 was the pace of the game. It felt like a football game. Each play was an event. Madden has always felt like a series of drives, where as 2k5 brought you into each individual battle. I don't know how to explain it any better than that, only that 2k5 captured something that Madden 10 hasn't yet succeeded in capturing. The good news is it may yet, and I think it's the presentation that is going to be the reason. We'll see.

In an attempt to show that you're unbiased you do the ultimate, and claim 2K5 is better than the Madden 10 you played.

When somebody (in a round about way) asks you to elaborate, you say "well, it was an alpha build, with placeholders, once Madden 10 comes out, I know I will finally put 2K5 away"

Then you conclude that NFL 2K5 makes you feel like you're fighting everydown, and Madden 10 doesn't do that, that's why you like 2K5 better.

There's an obvious contradiction here.

[PlyrzNumber1]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

So you totally ignored this?: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039548765 And my question is why? Why not go back a page and read it, then do a search and confirm it all to be true. And that my friend sums it all up. I'll have to use the ignore list again. It's a shame that people have to hate or attack so often with no evidence to back up their claims. If there was a shred of truth to what's been said, then I might be able to consider it, but it's so incredibly ridiculous and overall dead wrong, you can't even entertain it.

Why can't a civil disagreement take place around the issues without it leading to ignore lists, and using words like "hate" .. "flaming" and "bashing"?

Nobody is hating, flaming or bashing anybody. It's a simple matter of varying viewpoints and individuals who feel strongly and passionate about their opinion.

It's a message board. Difference of opinions is what stimulates the best types of discussion. Nobody is attacking anybody on a personal level.

[tennesseetitans]

Quote: Originally Posted by PlyrzNumber1

In an attempt to show that you're unbiased you do the ultimate, and claim 2K5 is better than the Madden 10 you played. When somebody (in a round about way) asks you to elaborate, you say "well, it was an alpha build, with placeholders, once Madden 10 comes out, I know I will finally put 2K5 away" Then you conclude that NFL 2K5 makes you feel like you're fighting everydown, and Madden 10 doesn't do that, that's why you like 2K5 better. There's an obvious contradiction here.

Or maybe there is multiple criteria for judging a football game. He was basically stating the importance of impact of presentation and of more dynamic play, both of which were probably lacking from the alpha build (limited range/unpolished animation and probably not much complete presentation).

Why don't we just wait till we get our hands on the game before deciding if their evaluations are applicable to our tastes? This is unlikely to get anywhere if you don't want to be convinced.

[MattIntellect]

Quote: Originally Posted by tennesseetitans

I haven't been around as long as a lot of the guys here, but I'll say this. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that 8 guys from all across the country, many of whom are some of the most vocal and opinionated people on theses boards in their criticism of Madden (and I mean this in a good way), would suddenly become undiscerning and biased based on a 20 hours play test. It's kind of like that move "Twelve Angry Men". Even if EA could have had that much sway on the opinion of most of the CD participates, I'm fairly certain that at least one of those eight would be outspoken if Madden was not vastly improved. You simply cannot brainwash people that feel as strongly about something as the CD members feel about their football game (again, in a good way). I'm not going to discredit their opinion, but rather I look towards their posts as insight, since they're the ones that have spent time with the game, and they're the ones with the most basis for legitimate criticism of the game.

I feel the same way. The people who went to Community Day, were people who used constructive criticism to improve the game before they went to the EA Tiburon studio. They still criticize the game so that it can be a great, realistic, fun, and enjoyable game. When those 8 guys played the game, I'm sure that they were impressed with what they saw. People on this forum shouldn't criticize them when they say that this game is great, and that it's one of the best football games that they have ever played rather than continue to bash it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we should be happy that the guys who attended Community Day were pleased, but still skeptical with what they saw, and thought that there was still room for improvement. That means that they gave their honest opinion about the game, but they still saw problems that they feel should be addressed. All of us here at OS are a community, and we should continue to work together to make this year's Madden great rather than become divided and end up with another Madden 08!