OT's vs DE's/OLB's and the Pocket

[TombSong]

Great thread.

LB, This is what I am talking about. You are feeding the forum what they want. The GAME of football. You are bringing the level of the user up to the game.

The Devs have GOT to start having more threads like this. This is the stuff that matters.

[lint]

I do not want to hijack this thread, but I really want to discuss with people the interior defensive line play. I want a dominate DT to explode into the middle and push that Center into the QBs face. The bullrush is non-existent.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by lint

I do not want to hijack this thread, but I really want to discuss with people the interior defensive line play. I want a dominate DT to explode into the middle and push that Center into the QBs face. The bullrush is non-existent.

I agree with you, but at the same time, they have to be careful with allowing a lot of DT's to get sacks that shouldn't. I don't want it to end up a case like 2k5 where guys like Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were getting a bunch of sacks when they are not pass rushers. But that middle pocket does need to be pushed. I've focused on the outside quite a bit because that's a huge problem, but you are right, the middle cannot be neglected either.

[netking23]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Dline Shift right - we get what we get now. Dline Shift right x 2 - Strong Side DE tilt inward 9 tech - Kearse Example Dline Shift left - we get what we get now Dline Shift left x 2 - Weak side DE tilt inward 9 tech - Suggs example Dline Spread - we get what we get now Dline Spread x 2 - both De's tilt inward 9 tech

Love this idea but i wonder how difficult it would be for them to get something like this in this year's game

[REDRZA]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

While that is the case, all the videos have the defenses in the Nickel so they are coming from the same spot, so I'd expect the same behavior in terms of the arc. In the Madden videos, the QB is out of his drop well ahead of time and can actually move earlier than they move in the video. I did this at CD and got outside. The DE chased me but I got outside nonetheless and got some passes off. Most of them were overthrown. But I want a fierce pass rush from certain guys. I want some guys to not even engage and beat the man with a move if the ratings call for it.

This is exactly what i was telling a friend of mine. EA/Tiburon has always made certain positions feel like dominating players based on ratings. Elite WR's and RB's have always been a problem to contain in the previous years.

I would love to see that translate to EVERY position, even Ofeensive linemen. If you have an elite, All-pro gaurd, you should be able to pound the ball behind him for gains UNLESS the defense over compensates to his side which in turn opens up other things for the offense. Walter Jones comes to mind in Seattle. They could TELL you they were running the ball and still get yardage. Dominating OL'men should get respect too.

Same thing as LBZ says here, if an ELITE pass rusher ala Freeney, Peppers, Umenyiora etc lines up against average or below average tackles, they should BLOW right by those medicre players at least a few times a game.

Also, the most glaring position is the QB position. There just isn't nearlt as much a difference between Manning and Tavaris jackson. IMHO, you should feel a HUGE difference in these players. There is NOTHING stopping you from lining up in shotgun with multiple wideouts with the Vikings. If the game was correct, you should NOT be able to do this. Playing with the Vikings should be just like the NFL. Give the ball to AP, play solid defense, and hope Jackson doesnt throw any INT's. Jackson should NOT be able to "WIN" them a game.

Ratings must apply to more positions throughout the game PERIOD. Having to overcompensate for a monster Offensive gaurd, having to throw away from an Elite CB Cover guy, having to send FB's or TE's to help block elite pass rushers is ALL what makes the NFL the "chess match" we all know it is. They are the "games within the game". This is what Madden has been missing.

[REDRZA]

Quote: Originally Posted by lint

I do not want to hijack this thread, but I really want to discuss with people the interior defensive line play. I want a dominate DT to explode into the middle and push that Center into the QBs face. The bullrush is non-existent.

Exactly my point of giving respect to other positions which have dominating players. LBZ, forget DT's getting sacks, i'm talking about stuffing the run game too. Albert Haynesworth, Pat Williams, Jenkins all get significant push into the opponents backfield. Im not saying all DT's, but the elite ones should be a factor just like in the NFL.

Ratings must translate to more positions.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by REDRZA

This is exactly what i was telling a friend of mine. EA/Tiburon has always made certain positions feel like dominating players based on ratings. Elite WR's and RB's have always been a problem to contain in the previous years. I would love to see that translate to EVERY position, even Ofeensive linemen. If you have an elite, All-pro gaurd, you should be able to pound the ball behind him for gains UNLESS the defense over compensates to his side which in turn opens up other things for the offense. Walter Jones comes to mind in Seattle. They could TELL you they were running the ball and still get yardage. Dominating OL'men should get respect too. Same thing as LBZ says here, if an ELITE pass rusher ala Freeney, Peppers, Umenyiora etc lines up against average or below average tackles, they should BLOW right by those medicre players at least a few times a game. Also, the most glaring position is the QB position. There just isn't nearlt as much a difference between Manning and Tavaris jackson. IMHO, you should feel a HUGE difference in these players. There is NOTHING stopping you from lining up in shotgun with multiple wideouts with the Vikings. If the game was correct, you should NOT be able to do this. Playing with the Vikings should be just like the NFL. Give the ball to AP, play solid defense, and hope Jackson doesnt throw any INT's. Jackson should NOT be able to "WIN" them a game. Ratings must apply to more positions throughout the game PERIOD. Having to overcompensate for a monster Offensive gaurd, having to throw away from an Elite CB Cover guy, having to send FB's or TE's to help block elite pass rushers is ALL what makes the NFL the "chess match" we all know it is. They are the "games within the game". This is what Madden has been missing.

+1

I've been saying the same thing for years too.

[STLRams]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Its not the act of leaving the pocket that I find objectionable, its the method it is done and the fact that it has been really risk-free for the offense for years and years and across generations of Madden games. It should be 100% automatic that a bad outcome is coming if your VERY FIRST move after the snap is to turn the QB's body away from the LOS and begin sprinting straight back. There should be no way in hell that this is a viable or even desired way to play the game. To be perfectly clear, if I boot up Madden NFL 10 and see my opponent take a snap from center and immediately begin sprinting backwards, I should be able to set the controller down, get a drink and watch as something bad - a turnover, a sack, an injury or a penalty - happens to my opponent. This should continue until he either quits the game and goes to do something else or starts playing QB like an actual QB instead of someone fleeing the scene of a breaking and entering gone bad! IF a player allows the QB to auto-drop the appropriate number of steps (or manually drops those same steps for the control freaks who feel it is too much imposition to have the drop be by default), and THEN escapes the pocket, I have no problem at all with the QB making a play under certain conditions: 1) that the play is made to a WR breaking off their route, based on awareness ratings and working BACK TO THE QB in 99% of the cases....NOT breaking off their routes to a fly route and having a scrambling QB hoisting a perfectly thrown 40-50 yard bomb to them... 2) that the QB's decision to run or pass once outside the pocket is not given more than 1 to 1.5 seconds before really bad consequences take over at a higher percentage (the longer the QB is exposed, the more prevalent the bad outcomes should be) - ie. sacks, fumbles, penalties, injuries. As it is now, and has been seemingly forever, once the QB is outside the pocket; too often they have enough time for a casual stroll to the sideline while sending Receivers deep! Escaping the pocket should feel like a helter-skelter, dangerous position and in Madden and NCAA over the years its actually been the exact opposite...on many versions of the game, escaping the pocket area or ignoring it entirely was the SAFEST thing to do! Controlling the outcomes of this (namely the idiotic idea that a QB could EVER sprint straight back and THEN roll out beyond the pass rush) is the easiest way that EA could discourage the use of this "tactic" until such time that the physics and animations are brought up to speed and can realistically stop it by programmed events. The fact that this exact sentiment has been being put forth by myself and others for years speaks to the seriousness the idea was given in the past. By every indication this year they are trying to address it, but it certainly sounds like Rookie and Pro difficulty settings will remain broken (as the IGN reviewer commenting on not getting any pressure , etc was played on Pro). As long as All-Pro and All-Madden are NOT broken (LB's comments make me comfortable with All-Madden and leary of All-Pro...I get the feeling that Ian and company will make the decision to allow All-Pro and default online games by extension to be closer to the Rookie/Pro tuning than the AM tuning) - or at least one of them is not broken, then I will be a happy man!

You make a great point, this is something Ian needs to read. Leaving the pocket should feel like helter skelter.