Defensive Line Play in Madden / APF2K8

[KG]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I'm not going to pretend to know how the DLine's should work from a football perspective. I know how the calls in APF2K8 work against the run/pass from a game perspective (closing gaps / getting pressure), but I'm no football expert. The only thing that really stands out for me is in the Madden video the OLine almost look like they are tripping over one another at one point where they close the pocket on themselves (squish together), and then pretty much any time a guy stunts in Madden they take themselves virtually out of the play.

The stunts look really bad in Madden '09. They DE's run way too far backwards. It's almost as if they are trying to build up speed to "ram" the guards. I love the APF QB stances.

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

Watching offensive tackle set up and punch and the various pass rush moves is amazing. Also the pocket that was formed just looked amazing and this is the game I played the most for the past 2 years and things still amazes me.

This is by far one of the coolest things to happen in video game football. I absolutely love how top-tier OL in APF are visibly better at passing off, chipping and moving to the next level, picking up stunts, etc.

I'd say 95% of the time it all looks very organic, too, though there are some weird animations here and there and some logic issues.

The translatable point for the Madden boards is that it would be fantastic to see some similar things in future Maddens. For example, scrub and average OL should be less active moving to the 2nd and 3rd levels, they should struggle more vs. stunts, be less secure holding the edge overall, and get less push while drive blocking. All that comes out in APF, and it makes for a very robust experience.

And to Joe, it doesn't have to turn into a cluster*%@# if we keep the discussion focused and constructive. In fact, I think posts like yours above only serve to create problems where they're not necessary. I don't think that generally about your posts, but stuff like that is incindiary.

Because the team is working hard on the pocket, those of us who play APF and think there can be some good communication about possible benchmarks for Madden should be able to just put the evidence out there in a constructive way for the community's/dev team's perusal. It's a win-win scenario to me.

[NYG 5]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pantherbeast

2k8 is plain cartoonish looking and is not really that fun at all.

LAUGH. OUT. LOUD.

[bxgoods]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pantherbeast

Now we all know we have seen most to all the clips from madden 10 about pro tak. Now there was times in those 10 videos where it looked like the pocket didn't want to form at all and it was the same old pocket come to love and know in past maddens. But other times in the 10 clips the pocket look true to it's form the way Ian said it would look. Though NFK 2k8 pocket looks good and all. 2k8 is plain cartoonish looking and is not really that fun at all. I will not judge madden 10 pocket until I see the final product with my own eyes. But nice video any way.

I agree, with all the great animations APK 2k had. The gameplay was boring, and the controls were unresponsive. I hope M10 is mix of APK animations and Madden's responsiveness.

[bxgoods]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYG 5

LAUGH. OUT. LOUD.

It wasn't fun, I bought APK for 5 bux, and would return it if I could.

[NYG 5]

if all pro "isn't fun", the i don't kow what that makes madden

[sois]

I wish that "DE under the OT's pads and slowly pushing him and rotating toward the QB" animation was in Madden. A good example starts at 1:32 against the LT.

[LBzrule]

First, thanks for taking the time Val. Second, guys could we please bracket our personal preference for a particular game for a second. The focus here is on execution of line stunts.

Madden Analysis:

Madden Play 1:
Look how far back the DE's are. This is a full line jet stunt and they execute it terribly. The DE's even cross each other and that should never happen.

Madden Play 2:
The second play is a half line jet stunt. Look at the DE. Look at how far he goes back and then turns in. The way they do this it gives the QB way too much time. They do not turn well at all and they go back and across way too far.

Now let's move to All Pro

Play 1: Half Line Twist/Jet Stunt

Look at how smooth the DE comes off the *** of the DT. Huge difference.


Play 2: DT Twist Stunt

Again look how one defender comes off of another. Notice that on the replay where the camera is at the back of the defense, the LDT penetrates, the right one loops right around him smoothly without bumping into him. Now Ian did address this one in Madden 10 on CD, but one of the DT's was still slightly running a bit too far before turning. It looked alot better and was effective once he attended to it.


All of that old crazy stuff about what looks cartoony ect doesn't even apply here. The issue is do you want your Dline to run the stunts more smoothly or not? Do you want to be able to call the plays with these line stunts and add an extra blitzer from some angle and get pressure effectively or not? or would you rather the Dlinemen in Madden 10 perform the stunts like they did in 09 and you wasted your damn time calling that play thinking you were going to be creative in your pressure package?