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NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin similar

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Old 06-29-2009, 02:45 AM   #49
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

Quote:
Originally Posted by coogrfan
I mentioned them because a previous poster made a direct comparison.

Our basic disagreement is one of game design philosophy. You seem to think that making game mechanics more complex automatically makes the game better or more realistic. Imo that's false. Added mechanical complexity only makes the game harder, which in turn means fewer people are going to want to play the damn thing in the first place.

I believe that the art of game design lies in making complex actions both realistic and simple to perform.

R&L is neither.



Not so. QB ratings matter a great deal in Madden, especially now that the rating categories have been expanded.



No, I don't have it any more. I do remember that the cursor moved exactly the same for any and all qbs.



Coogrfan let me start by saying I mean no disrespect and I'm just trying to hopefully help you look at this from a different angle that I see it from. With that said I don't think you're looking at this correctly.


First of all, the R&L system really isn't that complicated. It's surely more complicated than "this receiver has this button that you push to throw to", but that is so simple that five year olds could easily get the grasp of it. Like the guy in the video said, it seems complicated, but after using it a few times it's really not that hard.

Secondly, this is more than just rewarding players for stick skill. I am in total agreement with you about the importance of knowledge of the game, but I really think that knowing football and stick skill (which is representative of athletic ability in videogames) should have equal weight in videogames. With that being said, I personally feel that this system (rather a more evolved version of it) is a very good balance of those two.

The stick skill obviously comes into play with leading your receiver where you want him, and with being able to throw the ball where he can actually make a catch. The 'knowledge of football' part comes in with going through your progressions, much like the vision cone. Your big argument against R&L is that it lets every quarterback be John Elway, assuming the user has good stick skill. That's fine and all, but what happens when that person that has awesome skill has their pocket break down, and the receiver that they are focused on is double covered? This is a totally realistic situation in which the knowledge of who is running what route, what the defense is running, and who should be open will allow for the seperation between 'boys and men' so to speak, or between John Elway and every other quarterback :P. Combine this balance with the improved rating system of madden making a real difference on specific QB's success within this system and I think it could work beautifully.


Lastly, you seem to keep arguing against the specific installment of this that was featured in NFL Fever 2004. Remember that this is goign to be Madden 10, six years down the line and on a completely new line of consoles, if something like this were put into the Madden engine it would be refined a lot better than it was previously.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:19 AM   #50
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

We don't always get what we want.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:41 AM   #51
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

why would they work on the passing game when you buy the game annually regardless???
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:02 AM   #52
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

I'm also pro R&L. Any game that allows me to throw to a spot on the filed rather than picking a WR (button) I'm for. The one great thing About Fever was R&L. Youw ant a system that has plenty of overthrows or under throws ..this system gives it to you big time.
However it shouldn't be the only option. Just add it for those that want it.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:21 AM   #53
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddenps2
Maybe you should play both games, I have them both right now, as we speak. You calling them identical is nonsense, they are different. Lead and Read feels and controls different, allows for more control on where you intend the pass to go, and trigger pressure control on the angle and velocity of the pass. Precision passing has been around for ever, it's nothing new, lead and read was.

And btw why are you showing APF in an argument about maddens passing system. Maddens passing system doesn't even match NFL2k5's or APF. I remember way back when nfl gameday first had precision passing, that was awesome.
Exactly, I bring up APF because this discussion is about possible Madden passing game improvements. R&L is the main point of discussion, but I (and yourself) know max passing is more advanced than the Madden passing system. So, both styles are fair to discuss in the thread.

I stated that max passing could produce the same results as R&L, I never said it was "identical" to R&L. I agree, calling them "identical" would be nonsense.

Maximum passing can overthrow receivers in every direction. Trigger passing works similar to a timed button pass. Both techniques can throw lob/bullets; the trigger is just more precise with which type of pass is thrown.

I think this idea for passing directly relates to baseball video games. Some people love to use "cursor batting" others love to hit without a curor, like in MLB 09: The Show.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:37 AM   #54
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

Great sarcasm to the guy who said "as per usual, you're wrong"... that really convinced me, quite an argument lol. I, in my humble opinion, am one of those people who think passing should be a bit more complex. I disliked the vision cone, but appreciated the attempt to simulate qb vision. My only gripe about the fever system is that I hope the lead feature isn't too powerful in that the lead is too effective. I noticed this from the video.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:40 AM   #55
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but didn't NFL 2K game have the same thing? "Precision Passing" it was called.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:51 AM   #56
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Re: NFL Fever 2004's innovative passing"read and lead"Madden should adopt sumthin sim

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdon2k
Great sarcasm to the guy who said "as per usual, you're wrong"... that really convinced me, quite an argument lol. I, in my humble opinion, am one of those people who think passing should be a bit more complex. I disliked the vision cone, but appreciated the attempt to simulate qb vision. My only gripe about the fever system is that I hope the lead feature isn't too powerful in that the lead is too effective. I noticed this from the video.
I have to own up -- I had meant to include a smilie with that post to make it clear I was being a wise ***, but in my sleepiness I forgot to do so. The result was that my post was ruder than I had intended. Just another example of why I shouldn't post after 11:00 pm...

My apologies to you and maddenps2.

Last edited by coogrfan; 06-29-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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