pro tak vs backbreaker takle system

[totalownership]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Euphoria is cool but has one fatal flaw and that is that players cannot really struggle once collisions occur. Every "tackle" is going to be a missile-style collision, unless they used canned motion capture style or tackles. My question to pose (seriously) - would you be willing to give up the fact that the ballcarrier can no longer struggle for extra yards to have physics-driven tackles?

I don't really understand what you mean by this. It seems that with Euphoria the action would be dictated by how they tackle is initiated. If a defender comes in squared up and the player makes no attempt or a poor attempt to elude then you get the big bang but if the player manages to avoid the full load then there should be a calculation to animate that. The defender could get a hand on him and depending on strength and other factors he could slow the man down or miss altogether. If he gets two hands on but his body is not in a good position then he would be struggling to hold on all the while the offensive player is struggling to get more yards.

[JerseySuave4]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Just to be fair, you're weighting specifically captured highlight videos vs. real (full/un-edited) videos of Madden gameplay. Not a single real video has been released and only a select few of embargoed reviewers have put their hands on Backbreaker - IMO that's for a reason. Don't get me wrong, Euphoria is cool (I've seen it in action)) - but if you think that our animations get old I imagine the same exact feeling will happen to you when you are looking at football players crumpled up like ragdolls / dead bodies. Kudos for them to trying something new - I hope it works out.

yea people have seen the same couple vids on backbreaker for over a year now and are making assumptions based off that. No one has been able to touch the game or see how it really plays in a full gameplay video. Like i said, i hate when games show those highlight/replay vids to show off things because they are made that way for a reason, to be edited to show off whats good. Backbreaker may have some major flaws, we dont know yet since no one has been able to play it.

I think all of those missle tackles make the game look like NFL Blitz or some other non-realistic arcade game.

[leke4bears]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Euphoria is cool but has one fatal flaw and that is that players cannot really struggle once collisions occur. Every "tackle" is going to be a missile-style collision, unless they used canned motion capture style or tackles. My question to pose (seriously) - would you be willing to give up the fact that the ballcarrier can no longer struggle for extra yards to have physics-driven tackles?

i never miss a sec of the bears game these pass season which bring me to these: matt forte is among the top ten running back in league and i never see him truck or run over any defender. have seen video of wide receivers running over line backers(to me that is arcade).
am going to found it very annoying to see briggs and urlacher hogging sproles or see sproles running over urlacher rather than seeing two defender knocking math forte down and not giving him a chance to gain one or two yard more after contact.

have seen a clip of the ball carrier braking takle in backbraker.

i am going to pick backbraker takle over pro tak

[Atomic Martian]

Quote: Originally Posted by leke4bears

i never miss a sec of the bears game these pass season which bring me to these: matt forte is among the top ten running back in league and i never see him truck or run over any defender. have seen video of wide receivers running over line backers(to me that is arcade). am going to found it very annoying to see briggs and urlacher hogging sproles or see sproles running over urlacher rather than seeing two defender knocking math forte down and not giving him a chance to gain one or two yard more after contact. have seen a clip of the ball carrier braking takle in backbraker. i am going to pick backbraker takle over pro tak

I dont think you will see Sproles running over anyone in Madden 10 pro tak is based off the truck and strength rating(I believe) I would prefer Pro Tak over the Backbreaker thing there is way more potential with Pro Tak.

[leke4bears]

Quote: Originally Posted by Atomic Martian

I dont think you will see Sproles running over anyone in Madden 10 pro tak is based off the truck and strength rating(I believe) I would prefer Pro Tak over the Backbreaker thing there is way more potential with Pro Tak.

have seen alot of madden 10 footage of wr running over lb, and no deflextion is going to occur they are going to run through them like they are nothing. explain to me what a running back will do if a wr can run through a linebaker like that.

[titansftw]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Just to be fair, you're weighting specifically captured highlight videos vs. real (full/un-edited) videos of Madden gameplay. Not a single real video has been released and only a select few of embargoed reviewers have put their hands on Backbreaker - IMO that's for a reason. Don't get me wrong, Euphoria is cool (I've seen it in action)) - but if you think that our animations get old I imagine the same exact feeling will happen to you when you are looking at football players crumpled up like ragdolls / dead bodies. Kudos for them to trying something new - I hope it works out.

I personally like pro tak better because it would make real football easier to do. you can mo-cap actual football motions much easier than program intricate physics to simulate them. BB looks like blitz.

But off topic, why have you not said anything about pseudo progressive lighting? would it be so hard to make a change from a dusk sky to a night sky by the 3rd quarter? i am asking this now because apparently none of you guys have seen the thread on the issue.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalownership

I don't really understand what you mean by this. It seems that with Euphoria the action would be dictated by how they tackle is initiated. If a defender comes in squared up and the player makes no attempt or a poor attempt to elude then you get the big bang but if the player manages to avoid the full load then there should be a calculation to animate that. The defender could get a hand on him and depending on strength and other factors he could slow the man down or miss altogether. If he gets two hands on but his body is not in a good position then he would be struggling to hold on all the while the offensive player is struggling to get more yards.

There is no "struggling" is my point...as soon as the Euphoria system takes over and the players are in their "realtime tackle animations", their legs go dead and they follow through with the previous physics they had. There's not going to be any instances of fighting (unless they break their 'no canned tackles' mantra and use mocap).

Here's some examples from the same exact technology that Euphoria is built upon - it's Endorphin:



The big difference is that these are actually made in a tool - meaning you can manipulate stuff, fix bugs, and iterate. When you have this stuff running in realtime it is likely much harder to fix any visual glitches.

[blklightning]

i prefer bb because you can almost feel the hits when you see them onscreen. i don't know why, but for some reason the tackles in madden seem a bit soft.

example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OQWTOLzY1Y&hd=1

skip to 1:10. a receiver getting hit while going over the middle should get a cringe reaction, imo. but i'm not seeing it.