"SIM-STYLE" ballers..what goes on in your head?

[hollywood21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phixius

Of course you don't. You're not trying to get it. People been posting great examples throughout this thread and you're just turning the blind eye and ignoring them because you prefer the old outdated last gen style. Madden is marketed as simulation. This is why people are upset. This isn't last gen. Get with the times. I'm sorry I don't know what else to tell you. You're just being stubborn. I'm not going to find flaws in the a.i. to use to my advantage. I rather for them to be fixed. The way you play, I call that garbage. I expect stuff like that from NFL Tour because it's marketed as an arcade game.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Phixius]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

In that regard, if you don't already, I would recommend you find a group of online friends who are trusted and play Madden against them. I agree with you and that is why i play only unranked now and trusted people. What little thrill there is to beat some non-sim gamer with true sim play, to me that gets old fast as you find most non-sim players play the same. You beat one, you beat them all. I feel that my sim gameplay is very good myself, and friends have asked why i don't go to madden events, my short answer is that I don't want to waste my time and money at one of those events. I admit that I don't think my sticks ar up to par with the best tourny ballers out there. I have played enough ihgh level gamers online in ranked games and been killed by pure cheese. I will go to a madden event when you are rewarded for playing in the spirit of the game and not trying to break it. I don't want to ruin the game of football with "a game of madden" as MG would say. To the point, if MG is better at "Madden" than me, fine, good for you, but I am willing to bet that I am better at football than my opponant. To me, who ever is better at football is all that matters. I really could care less about leared board and all of that jazz.

I'm not impressed with the Madden 10' demo and I'll be renting it but this topic has really bug me for years from previous Madden so I decided to add my opinion to it. MG asked for people thoughts and yet he just ignores them.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoneyGames

I just dont get that, so whats the point of a controller? maybe you guys need to be asking for a game called "NFL knowledge football" until you guys stop asking and playing "real" football, you'll always be what good players call "bums" (no offense) its just fact. its a VIDEOGAME and you simmers dont get that, and wont

No. It is SUPPOSED to be a football SIMULATION and you cheesers don't get that and wont. "it's in the game." "everything you see on Sunday"

NFL Blitz is a video game, play that and quit ruining our simulation game with your garbage.

The controller is there to input your commands. How do you not understand that running a timing pattern, setting up a play action, calling a well timed cover 3 blitz to set up 3rd and long, playing D on 3rd and long to not give up the first and force you to punt only to have you go for it on 4th and 3, and so forth is just another form of stick skills.

Part of me wants to play you and rationally show you what I mean, but honestly, the more we talk about this the more it feels like I am wasting my time. At some point we are going to have to agree to disagree for the sake of our sanity.

The fact of the Matter is that EA and Ian obviously want Madden to be a simulation and less of a video game and that is shown by their actions. Further more is sounds like you are upset by this and want to attack the sim community for taking away the trash that should never have been allowed in madden in the first place.

Are you worried that sim players wil have a better chance of beating you now? if so does that bother you? do you think that is wrong some how? Do you think John Madden NFL Football should not be as true of a football simulation it can be? Do you think that removing control is the only way to do that?

We have a lot of control in Madden, we lost a lot of unbalanced control. ifor oen agre with you that we should not have lost control of playmaker and pass/run commit. however, what do you think should be done? Do you want Playmaker or QB avoidence? why?

...

Again ihave talked to people like you on this topic over the last 4, going on 5 years and this wont be the last time, but I really wish it were. the really point that this all boils down to is cheese palyers say "Sim palyer, get etter stick skillz" while sim players say "cheese players, learn the game." There are hundereds of videogames you can go out and play, leave us sim players the EFF alone. go paly COD4 and camp, or halo and use the spartan laser or what every else. If you want to be good at Madden, imo, you should have to be good at football first and good on the sticks second.

[DereckM]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Its a football SIMULATION. I play Forza because it recreates racing, real racing. I should be able to take my racing knowledge online and beat someone who just plays PGR4 all day. The same should apply to Madden. It should b 75% knowledge, gameplan, etc. 25% stick skills, teams, player ovr's, etc.

Thats one great post. Im a forza player also man. When guys would come in from PGR4 and say "why am I always spinning out?" I would just say its not as much about driving as it is about knowing how to drive.

Its really true in any sport. You can have all the skill or talent in the world, but if you dont know how to use it then its worthless. Madden really doesnt capture that from a realistic standpoint. Im sure Moneygames you have heard the term "RAW TALENT". Most of the time those "RAW TALENT" guys need good coaching. Because they dont have enough knowledge about how to use their talents be a force or affective. But I will give Moneygames this much. He knows how to use his talent or skill to play madden and in the world of guys who just play to win thats really all that counts.

[MattieShoes]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

Lastly, who are better QBs, Vick, McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Fran Tarkington or Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, etc? let me give you a hint, very few mobile QBs have won Superbowls and those I mentioned above never have. In fact the only mobile one I know who have are Montana, young, and Elway. All of them are pocket passers first and scramblers second.

Guys like Michael Vick and Vince Young aren't prototypical mobile QBs -- they're running backs who can pass (badly). When you use them as examples, it makes it sound like mobility is actually a negative. The inverse of those guys (with almost no mobility) are Drew Bledsoe and Dan Marino, who incidentally never won a SB either.

Steve Young ran it just about as often as Randall Cunningham, far more frequently than guys like Tarkenton. He was never a true pocket passer. Actually he was the leading rusher in his SB win. Elway's SB resume has a 59.3 passer rating, 3 passing TDs, 8 INTs, and 4 rushing TDs. Staubach's win in SB 6 featured 18 pass attempts and 5 rush attempts. Bradshaw won SB 9 with 14 pass attempts and 5 rushes. He won the next year with 19 pass attempts and 4 rushes. McMahon won in 85 with 5 rush attempts, 2 rushing TDs, 0 passing TDs and only 20 pass attempts. Montana won with 22 pass attempts and 6 rush attempts.

Tarkenton on the other hand made it to three superbowls, and has 5 rush attempts compared to 89 pass attempts.

Being a mobile quarterback isn't some sort of Superbowl death knell. It's definitely a plus. But being a good passer is certainly more important than being a good runner. :-)

[MattieShoes]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Its a football SIMULATION. I play Forza because it recreates racing, real racing. I should be able to take my racing knowledge online and beat someone who just plays PGR4 all day. The same should apply to Madden. It should b 75% knowledge, gameplan, etc. 25% stick skills, teams, player ovr's, etc.

Hah, I play Forza too and not PGR. I spin out all the time anyway, even with some assists turned on I swear, I have some of the most pimped out Subarus on the planet in that game simply because they have AWD so I don't spin out so often

[Maddenfeeeen]

SIM balling to me consists of just a few elements. It's about fair, true to life gameplay. Cheese is a term invented to describe gamers who take advantage of weak exploits. The animations, physics, and all things related are not what truly concern me. I want a realistic football game. I want to play guys that have respect for the game. I played this bum last night in '09. He's so proud of his 400+ wins. He used Trips left and Trips right THE WHOLE GAME! It was a garbage display of skill. That doesn't at all replicate NFL football. We all realize that Madden is a VIDEO GAME. But let's be real, it's becoming more and more sophisticated every year. Back in '93, I played at 10 years old, and crushed my competion. Well I'm 26 now, and 4-5 plays just aren't gonna cut it. Play the game to win, but with respect for the game! That's my definition of sim. A football VIDEO GAME that keeps me on the edge of my seat, because I DON'T KNOW what my opponent is gonna do next. Let's go!

[SonOfWisconsin]

I think that "Money's" problem is that, like most arcade ballers, he believes deep down he has to some degree god given abilities on the sticks, and by making Madden more cerebral, Tiburon is denying him this "inborn" talent. No longer can he just "lab" gravity defying rocket catches and other stick related glitches, and use that to beat anyone he can online. No sir, this year Madden is far scarier to the arcade players. They might actually have to read defenses. Stand tall in the pocket. PUNT. (OH NO NOT THE P WORD)
Here we are, still 2 weeks before release day, and all these threads are popping up about sim style vs arcade style. And where does it come from? I mean, there's a good chance that there will be more then enough glitches for these guys to exploit to get cheap wins online. So what's causing all the commotion? FEAR. The fear that these guys might actually have to change their ways and start playing a little more like the real pros do. And so they play the elitist card and throw out words like "stick skillzzz" and "competitior" IE Cheezer. Really, when you break it down, it's little different then the attitude a high school jock has toward a nerdy kid. He just thinks he's better, and as the status quo changes (for example, when they graduate from high school and the jock realizes his athletic skills are worthless and the nerd gets rich) he fears the change in that status.