What is the consensus on the 3-4?

[AdamV4xSBChamp]

The odds will have to be low because if they're high (as I said) players will reproduce the effect and the online guys will be on here calling for Ians head because its impossible to pass on the game. Thats the balance Im refering to. You underestimate the effectiveness of the 3-4 (as it is now). You start making defensive tackles have a high chance of getting double teamed (or even triple teamed? lol) and theres a free blitzer every play. Then if you do decide to take control of a blitzing linebacker, its game over for the other QB. Period.

I cant imagine why you would think there would be an issue with getting pressue against another human player with the 3-4. Against the CPU its hard to get a sack with any def scheme these days. That started last year with the QB chucking the ball away before you close in no matter what. But in heads up games it is a non issue, and pretty balanced the way it is. What you're suggesting would render the 4-3 completely obsolete, while making 3-4 god mode online. But then everyone always thinks what they like to do on games is underpowered, thats just natural.

The advice I was giving was how to get sacks with the 3-4 against the CPU. Since the CPU doesnt care which player you use and wont have a clue whats coming. If your struggles are against human players the advice would be to practice.

[crob8822]

My Question is are the outside linebackers gettiing heat on the quarterback. I.E James Harrison Pittsburgh Steelers, Shawn Merriman San Diego, DeMarcus Ware Dallas Cowboys or are they getting picked up by the tackles or the blocking back?

[mmorg]

Quote: Originally Posted by crob8822

My Question is are the outside linebackers gettiing heat on the quarterback. I.E James Harrison Pittsburgh Steelers, Shawn Merriman San Diego, DeMarcus Ware Dallas Cowboys or are they getting picked up by the tackles or the blocking back?

I have only played with the Browns and Chargers so far so I can only speak for Merriman really. But I was able to put a lot of pressure on the QB with Merriman, not so much with Wimbley or Veikune of the Browns. I think you need an elite pass rusher such as Merriman or Ware to get consistent pressure from the outside with the 3-4.

[Poetique]

Quote: Originally Posted by AdamV4xSBChamp

The odds will have to be low because if they're high (as I said) players will reproduce the effect and the online guys will be on here calling for Ians head because its impossible to pass on the game. Thats the balance Im refering to. You underestimate the effectiveness of the 3-4 (as it is now). You start making defensive tackles have a high chance of getting double teamed (or even triple teamed? lol) and theres a free blitzer every play. Then if you do decide to take control of a blitzing linebacker, its game over for the other QB. Period. I cant imagine why you would think there would be an issue with getting pressue against another human player with the 3-4. Against the CPU its hard to get a sack with any def scheme these days. That started last year with the QB chucking the ball away before you close in no matter what. But in heads up games it is a non issue, and pretty balanced the way it is. What you're suggesting would render the 4-3 completely obsolete, while making 3-4 god mode online. But then everyone always thinks what they like to do on games is underpowered, thats just natural. The advice I was giving was how to get sacks with the 3-4 against the CPU. Since the CPU doesnt care which player you use and wont have a clue whats coming. If your struggles are against human players the advice would be to practice.

If I really underestimated the 3-4 I wouldn't use it as my base scheme...

The fact of the matter is that if Madden is suppose to be "sim" some players are almost always double teamed by the opposing offense, period.

The other fact of the matter is that so long as that phenomenon is not produced in madden, the 3-4 is made alot more "useless" than it's supposed to be.

No amount of labbing changes the fact that for all the talent it requires to properly use the 3-4, an equal amount of talent is not required to use the 4-3 simply because the 4-3 functions properly and the 3-4 does not. It took me years to get good with the 3-4, but I can spontaneously use the 4-3 whenever I feel like it and do just as well or better (usually better in terms of sacks) as I do with the 4-3. Period.

Perhaps you're the one having the issue with estimating potential. Making sure NTs appropriately draw double teams doesn't guarantee a gap, nor does a triple team. Maybe you forget that there are 5 offensive lineman, yet only 3 defensive lineman in a 3-4. Even in a triple team situation an elite o line can still hold off all the defensive lineman. And nobody said anything about triple teaming occurring often... it should occur about as often as it takes 5+ players to stop one.

In a double team situation the matchup is still basically 4v5, and when blitzing one LB there is still only a CHANCE that someone will create pressure. It is nowhere near guaranteed. And certainly nowhere close to godly.

And perhaps it's natural for you and most people to think that their preferred method is "underpowered" but that is not part of my logic, even if you assume it to be so.

So no, what I'm suggesting doesn't make the 4-3 scheme obsolete, what I'm suggesting actually finally balances the defensive schemes in Madden, because as it stands (throwing talent out of the window) the 4-3 is superior.

Facts are facts, and the fact of the matter is that Vs. the 3-4 scheme the elite NTs are more often than not double teamed, and for some offensive lines its standard procedure to double team the NT regardless of who they are. Period. This is not my brain producing this thought, this is what I have gathered from playing football for 5 years and watching pro football for 15. It's simply how the game is played, period. Regardless of whether you like it or not.

Also, there's little need to practice creating pressure Vs. a human as opposed to the CPU. On offense the player doesn't control the line, it's still the CPU. Whether or not you actually get to the QB is a different story, but the blocking is the same. Conversely, nobody labs against the cpu, so thats a moot point to me anyway.

[mojo6911]

3-4 gets owned in the inside run game. Playing as the Raiders, I alternate Fargas and DMac to the inside near the end of the game. It is good for 5 yards a play against a 3-4, since the NT is always single blocked.

[AdamV4xSBChamp]

If you really dont care about playing against the CPU then you shouldnt be having any problems getting sacks, especially if you're controlling a linebacker often like you say. The most medicore player can get at least a couple of sacks by accident against another human...therers always a couple of plays in a game where a guy breaks completely free regardless of what defense you run. That is also just a fact. Ive played many many online games of Madden, and I run **** loads of timing routes and rarely am I in the pocket for more than 3 seconds, you're still gonna get sacked sometimes regardless.

So you're just not getting enough sacks and you want the 3-4 to be better. Around 3 sacks a game per team is the NFL average for 120-130 plays, if you're not getting that there is something wrong with the way you play, not the defense.

The supposed "fixes" you're suggesting would compound all of the pressure and you're looking at 5-10 sacks a game for an average player maybe, depending on how severe the change. Dont even worry about playing the "elite" guys anymore, 2-3 weeks and they'll have it all worked out.

You make it sound so easy just to implement a new feature that completely changes the most fundamental and important part of football without upsetting the entire game flow. If they made this paticular change, forget playing online. I played last year almost exclusively with the 3-4, mostly with the niners. I average 1.8 sacks a game and about 14 points allowed give or take a fraction, and I consider myself just an above average player. Thats averaging about 35 plays a game on both offense and defense, so double the total plays to about equal a real NFL game and it puts the sack total right about par for the league in real life. Put the 3-4 with these changes into the hands of an exceptional player and you can see how that potential would multiply.

This change is not needed at all for the vast majority of us. Online play pressure and sacks is completely fine regardless of what defensive scheme you choose to roll with. In franchise against the CPU is another matter, but you're obviously not concerned with that.

[Poetique]

Quote: Originally Posted by AdamV4xSBChamp

If you really dont care about playing against the CPU then you shouldnt be having any problems getting sacks, especially if you're controlling a linebacker often like you say. The most medicore player can get at least a couple of sacks by accident against another human...therers always a couple of plays in a game where a guy breaks completely free regardless of what defense you run. That is also just a fact. Ive played many many online games of Madden, and I run **** loads of timing routes and rarely am I in the pocket for more than 3 seconds, you're still gonna get sacked sometimes regardless. So you're just not getting enough sacks and you want the 3-4 to be better. Around 3 sacks a game per team is the NFL average for 120-130 plays, if you're not getting that there is something wrong with the way you play, not the defense. The supposed "fixes" you're suggesting would compound all of the pressure and you're looking at 5-10 sacks a game for an average player maybe, depending on how severe the change. Dont even worry about playing the "elite" guys anymore, 2-3 weeks and they'll have it all worked out. You make it sound so easy just to implement a new feature that completely changes the most fundamental and important part of football without upsetting the entire game flow. If they made this paticular change, forget playing online. I played last year almost exclusively with the 3-4, mostly with the niners. I average 1.8 sacks a game and about 14 points allowed give or take a fraction, and I consider myself just an above average player. Thats averaging about 35 plays a game on both offense and defense, so double the total plays to about equal a real NFL game and it puts the sack total right about par for the league in real life. Put the 3-4 with these changes into the hands of an exceptional player and you can see how that potential would multiply. This change is not needed at all for the vast majority of us. Online play pressure and sacks is completely fine regardless of what defensive scheme you choose to roll with. In franchise against the CPU is another matter, but you're obviously not concerned with that.

Lol... I can see you're just going to continue doing your damndest to undercut fact with flawed logic.

This isn't about the number of sacks I get (which I always get more than a realistic amount. That's COMPLTELY irrelevant)

Nor what you, him, her, or anyone else did last year running whatever scheme.

The FACT of the matter is the in a 3-4 scheme elite DTs are almost always double teamed, sometimes tripled, and it needs to be ****ing reflected in madden in order to put the 3-4 scheme on par with the 4-3. Period.

Until someone else feels the need to chime in, I'm done with the issue. I don't do the whole broken record argument thing, especially when its factual logic Vs. opinion. And FACTUALLY, the 3-4 doesn't function as it's supposed to.

Stop just playing Madden and watch an actual football game, or for that matter, play football yourself. Perhaps then you'll understand (or if you understand already, will have a clue what you're talking about). Goodbye

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by Poetique

Lol... I can see you're just going to continue doing your damndest to undercut fact with flawed logic. This isn't about the number of sacks I get (which I always get more than a realistic amount. That's COMPLTELY irrelevant) Nor what you, him, her, or anyone else did last year running whatever scheme. The FACT of the matter is the in a 3-4 scheme elite DTs are almost always double teamed, sometimes tripled, and it needs to be ****ing reflected in madden in order to put the 3-4 scheme on par with the 4-3. Period. Until someone else feels the need to chime in, I'm done with the issue. I don't do the whole broken record argument thing, especially when its factual logic Vs. opinion. And FACTUALLY, the 3-4 doesn't function as it's supposed to. Stop just playing Madden and watch an actual football game, or for that matter, play football yourself. Perhaps then you'll understand (or if you understand already, will have a clue what you're talking about). Goodbye

This is brilliant work. You have a great grasp on the sport and your post has great information and good ideas. Although, thoe good thing about this is that it kinda makes me happy to see the Stealers strengths negated. WHO DEY!