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The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

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Old 09-04-2009, 02:00 PM   #9
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imskykid
Here is what was posted in the other thread:

Separate Depth Charts for 4-3 and 3-4 teams. (This is just an example)

CB---------- 5T--- NT--- 5T---------------- CB
-------DE/OLB- MLB - MLB- DE/OLB--------

----------------S ---------- S-----------------------

5T (5-technique for lack of a better term), NT, and DE/OLB would all have their own specific rating qualifications. You want Glenn Dorsey to be your NT? Well his rating is going to take a hit because while he might play well as a DT in a 4-3, there are different attributes that make a 3-4 NT more effective.

The 5T for laziness sake (because EA wont want to spend the time anyway) their rating qualification could be the same as or close to DT ratings... but a different position would be nice because they have different responsibilites/attributes required to play the position.

Finally, what makes the 3-4 nightmares for QBs, the DE/OLB. Having a totally seperate rating for this position would eliminate the ability to plug any OLB in and be sucessful. Derrick Brooks is a HOFer but would not survive as an OLB in a 3-4. They need to have ratings similar to (but not exact) of DE. This way when you switch a low-70s Vernon Gholston to DE he doesnt go up to 90. But there should be a slight drop off when you switch a DE to DE/OLB because of coverage responsibilites.

Another thing this would improve is the Draft in Franchise Mode. The CPU Cowboys would not draft a DE who is 6'3" 255lbs and expect him to play the 5-Technique in their 3-4. Instead, players who have the DE/OLB position would default to whatever position best suits them for the scheme they are drafted into. Same would work with Free Agency when say Shawne Merriman isn't resigned. Instead of going to the Saints to play OLB, he would be switched to play DE because that is what their scheme dictates (much like how OLB Greg Ellis for the Cowboys is now DE Greg Ellis for the Raiders).

Simmed stats in Franchise are scewed because the same sim logic is applied to both 3-4 and 4-3 teams where DE's and DT's get the most sacks, when we all know that is FALSE! Creating all new positions and depth charts would allow for stats to be realistic and a good step in the right direction for gameplay.

LINK:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...eds-fixed.html
This is EXACTLY of what I am talking about, EA needs to take a look at this and rectify their erroneous ways.
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:47 PM   #10
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

I play as the Cards, and w/ Clark Haggans (LOLB) got 2 sacks vs the Texans last night (All-Pro Difficulty).

Haggans has 3 or 4, total, through wk5. Dockett has 3, Chike has 2, and I've got a few CB sacks and ILB sacks as well.

Are you guys controlling the OLB?

Running w/ a 2-4-5 I've used the Weak-Roll 3 when the offense presents me w/ a 3 WR set quite effectively. That's how Haggan's got 2 sacks vs Houston.

I primarily controlled Darnell Docket on the line, and created a lot of disruption to allow Haggans to get in there.

I'm not going to say the 3-4 is broken or not broken...but I have been getting sacks... I'm good but I'm not the greatest of players.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:06 PM   #11
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBH3
I play as the Cards, and w/ Clark Haggans (LOLB) got 2 sacks vs the Texans last night (All-Pro Difficulty).

Haggans has 3 or 4, total, through wk5. Dockett has 3, Chike has 2, and I've got a few CB sacks and ILB sacks as well.

Are you guys controlling the OLB?

Running w/ a 2-4-5 I've used the Weak-Roll 3 when the offense presents me w/ a 3 WR set quite effectively. That's how Haggan's got 2 sacks vs Houston.

I primarily controlled Darnell Docket on the line, and created a lot of disruption to allow Haggans to get in there.

I'm not going to say the 3-4 is broken or not broken...but I have been getting sacks... I'm good but I'm not the greatest of players.
Its more than just an issue of gameplay and user sacks, but simmed stats, drafting/free agency (both user and CPU), as well as gameplay. I'm sure most people can find some way to figure out how to get sacks controlling the OLBs but when you are playing in franchise and at the end of the year and DWare, Merriman, Suggs, and Harrison are all under 7 sacks, something is wrong.

Here is another excerpt from the other thread discussing this.

Scenario 1:

The CPU Chargers enter free agency looking to upgrade their DE because Igor Olshansky signed with the Cowboys last year and hasn't been replaced. So they scour the free agent world and pick up... Dwight Freeney? What do you do? Now a 3-4 team has just signed a DE that doesn't fit their defense yet his ratings wont take a hit because they are universal for DE's in 3-4 and 4-3. And the CPU certainly wont make the switch to OLB.

Scenario 2:

The CPU Chiefs enter the 2010 draft looking to upgrade their OLB... they just switched to a 3-4 defense last year and need a PASS RUSHER. Sitting at the 11th pick there's an OLB... 6'0" 232 with 45 POW and 56 FIN... Might be a great fit at MLB or outside for a 4-3 team, but the CPU wont switch positions. But, 4 picks later the Steelers take a DE who is 6'5" 255 lbs who has a speed rating of 83. This guy who would, in reality, switch to OLB in their defense... but not in Madden!

The hybrid position would fix this so that who ever drafts them, they default into whatever position is more appropriate for the scheme... either DE or OLB.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:40 AM   #12
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

This is a fantastic, well thought out thread. Nice job OPer.
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:31 PM   #13
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Donovan
This is a fantastic, well thought out thread. Nice job OPer.
Thanks, I put as much thought as possible. Well I hate to bump my own threads but I truelly believe that this needs to be fixed.
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:38 PM   #14
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

while i agree it's awfully tough to get sacks with your OLB's in the 3-4 I love using the 3-4 defense. I hate the 4-3. Zone coverages in the 3-4 are much better imo.
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:44 PM   #15
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

Love the hybrid idea....anyone know if they are fixing the 3-4 in the 2nd patch?
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:09 PM   #16
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Re: The 3-4 is still broken, ideas and ways to fix it.

correction...this needed to be fixed 5 years ago. I just dont think EA can do ANYTHING about it at all, or else it would have been fixed before.

i personally see no hope for this ever being fixed anytime soon.
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