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Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
This is a discussion on Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression within the Madden NFL Old Gen forums.
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09-04-2009, 07:16 PM | #225 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pro
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
The problem is that a F rated player is not going to progress to a fair level, compared to an A rated player - even IF they perform better in game. Lets assume the CPU does the training to get the 'A' player his progression. Thats fine, its a WR who is catching balloons... +10 CTH... or whatever. The F rated player starts in a Monday Night game (for whatever reason)... F rated player does OK and in the final drive, catches a 70 yard pass, breaks a tackle and scores the winning points.... now his performance in doing that is surely better than catching a balloon for 15 minutes a day in practice? If that happened in real life, an unexpected player making the big play... would the camera crew and commentary team ignore it? Would they switch their attention to the sideline to the A rated player as he is supposed to be better... thus they watch him catch balloons? OR do they, this may shock you, comment on what happened on the field and possibly even praise a 'F' rated player.... Now going back to this as a gamer... on this scenario, I would want my F rated player to get more attention and progression than I would my A rated balloon catcher. But as people have said on here, my F rated player will hit a ceiling... meaning that although he breaks all the NFL receiving records in just 5 years... he will never be 'rated' as highly in the game as my A rated balloon catcher, because of the potential rating barrier. This impacts the game in many ways: 1 - Contracts.... lower the OVR, lower the cash... lower the demand on the player 2 - Should I want to trade said F rated superstar... I would not get the value back... the CPU will see a F rated player with a 70 OVR and say, you can have a 65 OVR receiver for him.... even though, my F rated superstar holds all the NFL records for receving..... I dont know how many more times I can be bothered to say the same thing. |
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09-04-2009, 07:38 PM | #226 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
Route running, 97 3rd in the league. This iis just BS. He is at best a good route runner but nowhere near 3rd in the NFL. Again he makes his living running simple routes against backed off coverage. I wouldn't give him above a 90. Spectacular Catch, 80, not great but still this even watching his highlight reels there are really no spectacular catches at all. A 70 is plenty generous. Awareness, 93, 10th in the league. This would be easier to argue if we knew exactly what awareness is but basically according to donnie (the guy making the ratings) it is a showing of the player's experience and knowledge. That said, why is wes who has only been playing for 5 years and only started 30 games considered more experienced than all these wrs who have been around and been good for so much longer than him. Ball Carrier Vision, 92, this doesn't effect overall and I can see where he gets this rating but I think they really need to seperate open field vision from between the tackles vision. While your idea for a letter grade is nice I am still more of a fan of the ratings range system. It leaves room for debate and has a built in system to show the fact that no player plays the same week in and week out. The stats were from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com. As far as the wes's numbers in that area being low being a result of the pats being a short passing team let's look at the other recievers on the pats these last 2 years. Moss had 11.08 but that is expected, he is randy moss. Gafney averaged 9.00. Ben Watson averaged 7.38. Stallworth had 8.1. Of course running backs would probably have lower stats here but among WRs and TEs he is at the bottom of his team as well as probably the league. |
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09-04-2009, 07:50 PM | #227 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
Lets go to a real life situation similar to that described here. On one hand we will take mario manningham, a guy who hasn't really shown anything in the league as of yet and making 4 catches for 26 yards. He is probably not an extremely highly rated player but he has some potential. Now as the F potential guy we will take david tyree. He made a huge play, not on monday night football but rather in the superbowl and folllowing that the next year he was on the bubble to even make the team before he got hurt and spent the year on the IR. This year he is again pretty questionable to make the team. One big play does not make you a star. As far as the contracts thing goes, this is why I support a production type rating like head coach 09 had. That way the player would have some value due to his production without having to make him a better player for something that should not cause him to become a better player. |
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09-04-2009, 09:07 PM | #228 |
MVP
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
Madden 06 progression was not perfect... at least on PS2.
It was way too easy to get to 99, also some brainiac thought players needed to progress after every playoff game.... So if your team made the playoffs, every player was guaranteed to be a 90 rating if your team made a superbowl run. |
09-04-2009, 09:26 PM | #229 |
Hall Of Fame
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
I don't really like the idea of in season progression for anything other than awareness, play recognition and other non physical attributes. All the physical development should happen in the off season
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09-04-2009, 10:03 PM | #230 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
Back all the way in 1989, the devs originally wanted to make "John Madden Football" to be 6-7 men playing on the field. Madden himself, said "He will not put his name on it if it is not real" Every year madden has slowly added more and more into the game. EA's moniker is "If it is the game, then it is in the game" In Madden they have tried to create an NFL simulation. Madden 10 sell point was this
The clearly say they capture the authenticity and emotion of the NFL like never before. This is a complete lie when you compare it to how progress works in madden. There is nothing authentic nor realistic about it. Your idea about a simulation is flawed. Have you ever heard of flight simulator? All of the sims series( Sims 1-3, Sim city, Sim Ant ect ect)? All of the Tycoon series(Roller Coaster or Prison Tycoon ect ect) Civilization? Spore? Romance of the Three Kingdoms series? There are countless games that are made that require the player to manually perform a task or give commands to achieve actions. In a flight simulator a player commands his plane and moves it, lands it, ect ect. In the Sims series the player controls his player/creature and tells them exactly what to do. In civilization the player commands his entire empire and leads them. In Spore the player has to actively fight or grow to improve. Those are all simulation games and they involve human interaction to be able to work. Sure you could just set them to do nothing and they would function but they would not function properly. A simulation as defined above pertains to all of these games. Madden has been trying and saying for years that it is the representation of the NFL league. They claim, if you see it on Sundays then you will see it in the game. In fact, they are trying to make Madden into a simulation and under the above terms Madden already is a sim and can in some areas be considered a proper representation of the NFL but in the area of progression and the off season they fail epically. People want Madden to turn into a complete simulation because EA has all the rights. They are held to a higher standard to make the game be not just a close simulation but an exact model of what really happens in the NFL. Dont believe me...Just read half the forums. People cry out to see colored shoes, less robotic animations, proper progression, hand warmers, proper skin color of their players, correct stats for their players...It goes on and on and on. They want an exact simulation of what the NFL really is...And EA has listened and made the game more like it. Almost any sport game when you break it down, is partially, if not as a whole a simulation as defined by the terms above. As to try and answer the question you say I have been avoiding, Just because a player has A potential does not mean he will become a 90+ overall player. I have never said that there should be some in game factor of risk/reward and to be quite honest I have no idea what you are rambling on about. I have in my previous posts explained how a system could be implemented that would work for everyone(besides the people who hate potential) Take HC 09's system that players grow all season long. They grow faster in X areas because they have a good coaching staff and they are getting some playing time(practice falls under this) Each stat the player has will have to reach say 2000 points to increase a total of one point. So if a player gains 2000 total points in awareness then he will gain one hard point of awareness in the game. To build further on this, you could take 2K5's system of training your players before game day. You can have them work out, study film, ect ect and that could contribute to getting to the 2000 point total to increase that hard point +1. The training staff will influence how well they can grow there during those activities. Another twist could be that Vets also help increase how well players grow. The flaw in this system is that players HAVE to have a potential. If they do not then all players could grow to be 99 overalls. Teams like the Pats and Steelers would always have talented players because of their coaching/training staff are some of the best in the league. I know the dev team is capable of implementing this system. They did it in HC 09. They have the framework sitting there to use and then they go with a PBP system for M10... Last edited by Glorious Arc; 09-04-2009 at 10:13 PM. |
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09-04-2009, 10:10 PM | #231 |
MVP
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
@ MaddenHead
I agree. Playing time should be a factor but not what you do during that playing time. I thought you were someone who thought Potential was wrong and were a PBP. You were mixing real life and the game though. Wes was always had the potential to be a great player. He was shifted to the Pats and was put into the situation where is current skills allowed him to put up great numbers. He got better from the time he was at the Phins to the Pats yes but again you are mixing the real life with the game. In the game, everything is set and known about a players potential(maybe the potential shouldnt be visible but it is) and EA becomes all knowing in the sense that they know how good everyone will be able to become. IRL no one can really say who is the next AD or the next Brady ect ect. What we do know is that we as normal people dont have the skills and wont ever get the skills to play in the NFL. Maybe one of your friends may make it but he will be 1 out of 3000 in a population of 300 million(just Americans not including international players) that have the potential to become an NFL player. Even then there is still only less then 300 people who are HOFers. By not having a potential cap system you are basically throwing those facts away. You are saying that everyone is equal and the sad truth is that is wrong. (I am not directly saying this to you when I say you. I am saying it generally to everyone) Last edited by Glorious Arc; 09-04-2009 at 10:25 PM. |
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09-05-2009, 02:55 AM | #232 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression
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