Home

Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

This is a discussion on Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression within the Madden NFL Last Gen forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football > Madden NFL Last Gen
ESBC Roster - The Best We've Ever Seen in a Boxing Game?
PES 2021 Team Spirit Guide - Understand Chemistry on a New Level
MLB The Show 21 Diamond Dynasty Budget Beasts
Poll: What's more important to you, when the time comes to purchase a game? (Click to vote)
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-04-2009, 04:25 AM   #17
MVP
 
OVR: 26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
But how can you determine what players should be rated with what potential? That completely eliminates any late round greats like Tom Brady or Terrell Davis because they would have "D" potential and could never become great.
Did you not read my post? IRL no one knew those players had that kind of talent including themselves. The difference between RL and Madden is that IRL no one knows how good someone can really become but in madden they are all knowing. They premade the drafts to have those late round sleeper players like Brady and Davis.

If real players(not premade rookies) perform IRL then they get a roster update. In madden you cant do a roster update on premade rookies because EA already knows exactly how good everyone can become. They choose who the sleepers are because if they didnt then EVERYONE would be a sleeper and it would ruin the game.
Glorious Arc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:26 AM   #18
Rookie
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Apr 2009
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
Read my first post about John Navarre, I had a 31 TD and 34 INT season with him on All-Madden... not great, but it was enough to progress him a little because at times he did do very well. Sometimes I would have a great few weeks and he would progress 2 points, other times I would have average weeks and he wouldn't progress.
You're missing the point, though. His performance was based on his ratings. Not vise-versa. I realize that that's not how it is in the game. That's what I'm saying: the game is flawed in that way. Fortunately it's not a game-breaker yet, but it easily could be. It is completely and totally the opposite of "sim."

In fact I'll go one further: I know a lot of people liked Head Coach and are excited that the HC people are working on Franchise. I'm not. I won't play HC. It is not a sports simulation game. It is an RPG. The depth elements are good, but making Madden rosters the correct size, choosing an active roster on game day, cutting players pre-season, all seem like they would take 5 minutes to do.

Last edited by jip4; 09-04-2009 at 04:31 AM.
jip4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:28 AM   #19
MVP
 
TeamBuilder's Arena
 
OVR: 15
Join Date: Jun 2009
Blog Entries: 5
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glorious Arc
Did you not read my post? IRL no one knew those players had that kind of talent including themselves. The difference between RL and Madden is that IRL no one knows how good someone can really become but in madden they are all knowing. They premade the drafts to have those late round sleeper players like Brady and Davis.
And what about current players? How come I can't have a 42 catch 695 yard 5 touchdown season with Patrick Turner, then keep steadily improving those numbers, just like I did with John Navarre, until he can become elite. How does Madden know Patrick Turner can't become elite? The fact is, he can't in the game because they capped him off at a "C" potential.
TeamBuilder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:30 AM   #20
MVP
 
OVR: 26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
And what about current players? How come I can't have a 42 catch 695 yard 5 touchdown season with Patrick Turner, then keep steadily improving those numbers, just like I did with John Navarre, until he can become elite. How does Madden know Patrick Turner can't become elite? The fact is, he can't in the game because they capped him off at a "C" potential.
If he does that IRL then they will edit his abilities accordingly with a roster update. That is the only flaw in a potential system but it has to be done to make the game realistic. They can slowly edit things along to correct each player and that is the best they can do to prevent a complete league of 99 overall players. Current players are the only question marks because like I said before "No one really knows what their potential is until that moment" So EA has to keep changing their stats to reflect what they do and how well everyone thinks they will do.

Seriously, you have not read a single word I have said in my last posts and I am done dealing with this conversation with you.

Last edited by Glorious Arc; 09-04-2009 at 04:37 AM.
Glorious Arc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:32 AM   #21
Pro
 
MrSkagTrendy's Arena
 
OVR: 9
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, England
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
Remember Madden 2006 for XBOX, with Donovan McNabb on the cover? That game had perfect progression.

-Young players would progress in their first few years (as they should).

-Every 4 weeks your players would progress if they played well.

-Pre-season was useful because if you played well your players would progress.

-Making a run in the playoffs would progress your players. Makes perfect sense, playoff experience.


I remember I would use the Cardinals and start 65 overall rated John Navarre. I played on All-Madden and threw 31 TDs and 34 INTs while going 15-1 (won 6 games by one FG). Navarre progressed up to a 72 OVR and then after the playoffs progressed to a 75 OVR. The next year I had 38 TDs and 14 INTs and he finished the year at 89 OVR after the Super Bowl. NOW THAT WAS PERFECT PROGRESSION.
Go play Madden 06 then.
MrSkagTrendy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 09-04-2009, 04:34 AM   #22
Rookie
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Apr 2009
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
How does Madden know Patrick Turner can't become elite? The fact is, he can't in the game because they capped him off at a "C" potential.
Umm, exactly? You just answered your own question.

But think about it. It's not catching the balls on gameday that makes the a player catch better. Its spending two hours a day on the juggs machine in the offseaon. It's walking around squeezing a tennis ball during the day.
jip4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:34 AM   #23
MVP
 
TeamBuilder's Arena
 
OVR: 15
Join Date: Jun 2009
Blog Entries: 5
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by jip4
You're missing the point, though. His performance was based on his ratings. Not vise-versa. I realize that that's not how it is in the game. That's what I'm saying: the game is flawed in that way. Fortunately it's not a game-breaker yet, but it easily could be. It is completely and totally the opposite of "sim."
I guess that's where we disagree. I totally see what you're saying but I think that ratings and performance feed off of each other. Instead of only ratings = performance I think performance shouldn't necessarily equal ratings, but it should have an effect on them. I agree that if you have a 1,500 yard 15 touchdown season with a 65 OVR running back something is wrong with the difficulty. But I think that person should raise the difficulty level if they want progression to be real. On the other hand, that could be how the person chooses to play his game so why not let him play it that way? You and I can just raise the difficulty level so the running back can progress a little if he performs a little better than his rating indicates.
TeamBuilder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 04:35 AM   #24
Rookie
 
OVR: 3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bath, UK
Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by jip4
I posted this on another thread, but I'll repost here:

It's important to realize what "progression" is. It is a player increasing their ability level. It is not a re-evaluation of the players ability level (which is what mid-season roster updates are, and what mid-season/preseason progression simulates). It makes no sense to re-evaluate the a Franchise player's ability level, because we know precisely what that ability level is.

This isn't true in real life. Matt Cassel probably started last season with his Madden rating at ~70. He probably finished it at ~85. Now let's think about what happened. Did he really get 15 points better over the course of the season? Or was he really an 85 all along, and we just didn't know it (this one)?

The difference between real life and the game is that, within the context of the game (and more specifically, within the context of Franchise mode), we do know exactly how good every player is. It's in a nice little spreadsheet, with all kinds of sub-categories that we can sort. It's those numbers that determine how players perform, not how good they "really" are. Give a 70 OVR running back a great offensive line and he can have a great season, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a 70 OVR. And just because I decide on a whim not to throw a single ball to my 99 OVR receiver all season doesn't mean he's suddenly a 65. Or even a 95.

The "performance-based potential" arguments mistake the cause and effect relationship between ratings and performance. High ratings are not a reward for performing well. High ratings cause you to perform well. If a bad player plays well, one of three things is happening:

1. There's a flaw in the game (and this is entirely possible: if you're getting 1600 yards with a 65 OVR running back, something ain't right)
2. You've designed your system around the player, and/or put him in a position personnel-wise to be successful (i.e. he's a product of the system)
3. You just got lucky (i.e. he's a one-year-wonder)

What isn't happening is that the player is suddenly 15, 10, or even just 5 points better. Heck just from knowledge the game, we know that players get better from practice, from working out, from studying film, from training in the offseason; but not from catching 6 balls instead of 3 on Sunday.

Sorry if this seems kind of rambling, but IMO performance-based potential is a franchise killer, and it worries me just how much some are pushing for it.
I'm with you.

So often in real life a skill player who's been drafted early won't get hot until their second or even third year. Or an underrated player suddenly comes good after a year or two on the practise squad. The current progression model nicely mimics that. The one people are clamoring for does not - it means the only way of improving a late round QB or WR is to keep playing them, when in real life they would learn from being on the sideline and training every week. I absolutely HATED the old progression model for that exact reason.

Please don't go back, EA. Please.
Benzhiyi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football > Madden NFL Last Gen »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:58 PM.

Top -