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Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

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Old 12-03-2009, 07:43 PM   #281
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
I think what Madden needs is to have a pre-game prep system more like 2k5 more than anything else and tie progression to that over time.

Someone called HC an "RPG" - to me, that's exactly what performance-based progression is. A player "levels up" by catching a lot of balls or making a lot of tackles just like a RPG character levels up by killing stuff and some how that killing stuff makes them faster or smarter or better at casting spells or picking locks.

Someone said Madden emulates real life - do real life players get better at football by catching 4 passes instead of 2, or making 5 tackles instead of 6? If they do, it's probably due to drills during the week instead of what happens in the actual game.

Madden is just missing the weekly prep that goes into every game.

As far as potential goes, the system now very well can create a "Brady situation". It's a low OVR (so he falls down the draft), but has a hidden A potential so that if he ever got a chance and had time to develop...boom.

The problem, imo, isn't capped potential - instead it's that we can SEE that potential.

Hide potential, make us find out over time how a player grows.

I did like the weekly progression changes because players don't change in a lump sum once a year. It's a gradual thing in either direction.
I have a conflicted view of how I should say my thoughts. Part of me wants to say that players dont really get better as the season goes on. The other part says players do get better as the season goes on. I feel that most of the players progress most during the off season training as compared to the weekly practices. Reason being, is weekly practice has you prep for what the other teams do and off season trains you in new techniques and improves your physical fitness. I will try my best to explain.

Maybe they should have a permanent increase during the off season and then during weekly training a temp increase in their stats. Younger players would retain a small amount of the temp stats but older players wouldnt. This would portray rookies learning the NFL curve.

The RB position is were I feel that players normally get worse as the season progresses. Not because their talent level decreases but because the human body just isnt built to keep up with the punishment. A body health system like HC 09 should be moved in but instead of only effecting injury rates the health could also effect the amount a player can really use of that give part. So RBs who get 400 carries a season wont last more then 2 seasons before their bodies wear out and start getting hurt/wont be able to perform at their current stats.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:50 PM   #282
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glorious Arc
Maybe they should have a permanent increase during the off season and then during weekly training a temp increase in their stats. Younger players would retain a small amount of the temp stats but older players wouldnt. This would portray rookies learning the NFL curve.
That's pretty much how 2k5 did it, except it wasn't specific to the team you're facing (that would have been awesome). Any growth/drop you got impacted that week. I don't know if it carried over as the season went on or not.

I could live with only the youngest players getting any significant carry over. Or make it experience oriented. Madden tracks downs played so a guy who hasn't played many downs (young or old) in his career could keep some "temp" points/have carry over during the year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glorious Arc
The RB position is were I feel that players normally get worse as the season progresses. Not because their talent level decreases but because the human body just isnt built to keep up with the punishment. A body health system like HC 09 should be moved in but instead of only effecting injury rates the health could also effect the amount a player can really use of that give part. So RBs who get 400 carries a season wont last more then 2 seasons before their bodies wear out and start getting hurt/wont be able to perform at their current stats.
Yeah, season fatigue really makes me watch my HB because I love the running game. I ran McGahee into the ground one year in HC because he was the only back doing anything and he was all but worthless come playoffs heh.

I had to watch how much I used Heap too - he seemed to be in perpetual pain. (Always questionable)
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #283
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

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Originally Posted by TeamBuilder
Hey bud,

I like your power plant analogy, I think it makes sense in the terms of defining the word potential. Not sure if I agree that it fits to players in the NFL though. Because of the human element (effort, practice, etc...) I think potential does have the ability to fluctuate, and I would love to see that implemented within franchise mode.

If I have a WR with a 79 overall rating (with "C" potential) and his catch rating is an 82... I don't like that he can never increase his catch rating beyond an 82 because his OVR rating is capped at 79. If potential could fluctuate a bit he could actually improve... Like in real life if he practiced and worked at it to improve his hands.

Because of the current system, once a player hits his capped number, he can't improve in a single category. All progression in every sense of the word screeches to a halt. I don't think that makes any sense because the guy hit a pre-determined overall number.

I have an indoor soccer game to go to, be on later
I completely agree that the current system is completely messed up. No system should ever be built like it currently is(for those who dont know click the link for a breakdown)http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ogression.html

I think instead players should have a potential cap on EVERY attribute they have. Meaning just because your WR has maxed out in route running and awareness he could still progress in catching because it hasnt reached its max. This is taken straight from HC 09 again.

I can refer back to my power plant to fully explain how the human element can be negated. When we first had nuclear power it could only produce 400 units of power...Its potential was still 1000 though...We just didnt know it yet. We made advancements in tech and improved output to 750 units. Following then the final advancement that completely unlocked its power and gave us 1000 units of power. No matter what we do we can only harvest 1000 units from nuclear production. The only way to get more units is to use another material(different player) or a completely new form of power(also a different player) The only difference between the power plants and humans is power plants dont have "moments" they are a constant flow.

Grant it, in the NFL the phrase any given Sunday rings true. Madden's game play should allow for any given player a chance to perform a given action(even if its less then 1% chance) this would allow for plays from players like Tyree and other average guys to make stellar plays once in a rare time. That means just because you have a 75 rated player doesnt mean he wont be great at all but at least every now and then he will have a stellar moment. Players who are rated 90+ would be making outstanding plays left and right.

Last edited by Glorious Arc; 12-03-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:19 PM   #284
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
That's pretty much how 2k5 did it, except it wasn't specific to the team you're facing (that would have been awesome). Any growth/drop you got impacted that week. I don't know if it carried over as the season went on or not.

I could live with only the youngest players getting any significant carry over. Or make it experience oriented. Madden tracks downs played so a guy who hasn't played many downs (young or old) in his career could keep some "temp" points/have carry over during the year.
Side track...If only I could play HC 09 as the players...I would have lost hundreds of hours more of my life lol. Playing franchise on M10 compared to HC09 is depressing.

That was almost how 2k5 did do it. They just made the advancement from the weekly prep 100% temp increase. I would want to see a slight increase from them for inexperienced players. Say guys who have played less then 1000 downs? That would place rookies near the end of their rookie season no longer getting the boosts if they started every down. And guys who are benched wouldnt see any permanent points from the weekly prep until they play X amount of downs a game.(The last little bit about benched players is sketchy at best honestly)

Maybe make it personality oriented. Every person has their own learning style IRL so they could look to add that element into training methods/practices to help those types of players progress. Meaning if you do a visual practice then guys with visual learning would get a larger temp increase and see a small permanent increase. They could make it a total of 16 permanent increases from weekly prep for any player, as that would be easier to track then who was benched or who was playing.(some players progress better on the bench just learning and practicing so...)
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http://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:46 PM   #285
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

I would like

after preseason
2 times during the regular season
after SB (for teams in post season)
Off season

I think there should be a cap per year of roughly what there is now (think a player can't progress more then about 7? per year).

I do like the potential system but wouldn't mind the possibility of being able to increase a players that player EXTREMELY well for several season.

Other then the frequency of the progression the current system if good. There HAS to be progression after the preseason for it be have any point at all IMO.

I actually REALLY liked the first Head Coaches systems for ALL ratings. The game had ranges for all ratings. So, a QBs Throwing Power might be like 90-99 and before every game it would adjust some place in the range depending on variables (practice that week, injury, recent play) each week.

Last edited by stux; 12-03-2009 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:43 AM   #286
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

I thought progression was and is still overdone. After a couple years all the QBs in the league are godly and there are 90+ rated Wide Receivers on every team. I dunno, I'd almost rather do without progression entirely than to have every team end up with nearly the same team ratings after a few seasons.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:44 AM   #287
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

I'm ambivalent about the issue as well. While I'd like in-season progression like next-gen had, I disliked the "every playoff game" increases that teams had.

I guess I'd favor the "weekly practice" system like 2k5 had, though implemented a bit less cumbersomely and clumsily. But if my team is playing well, increases for players doing especially well would be good.

And truthfully, I don't mind the potential rating. Read any scouting report of a player, and the scout (Nolan Nawrocki's my favorite) will tell you how much potential the player has. So I don't see it as all that unrealistic.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:28 AM   #288
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Re: Madden 2006 Had Perfect Progression

I think 2k5 was the closest so far of hiving the "right system". HC09 had some great elements in there as well with the potential. Eventually I would like to see an even more advanced system in place.

First off, as big of a fan as I am of potential and as much as it is needed to keep the current system balanced in my system we would advance past the need for potential atleast as a hardcap type potential. As with head coach there would be a necessary number or points to advance a skill point one level. There would be a "potential" type limit set on each rating but rather than a hard cap it would just increase the rate at which the number of points required increases.

For example a WR has a 76 in catching with a "potential" or 80 for his catching ratings. To reach 77 he may need 100 points, to reach 78 110, 79 would take 120, and 80 would take 130. He could still continue but 81 might take 230 points, 82 maybe 330, 83 would be 430 etc so it would become really tough to increase beyond that. With the training schedule I am about to lay out it would take way too much of your training allotment to be worthwhile.

For training it would be similar to 2k5 where you lay out your training regimine and you should be able to do this week to week, during OTAs, and training camp, and all other times where any practice is happening. The difference would be rather than being limited to solely temperary bonuses there should be a number of both actual long term training and game preperation so you would have to find a balance between actually improving your players long term and having them prepared for the game.

Play learning also needs to come into play and be an important part of the required preperation for the games. This would make for a lot of decisions that would have to be made in terms of making sure your players are ready. Also, you should be able to determine which players are playing which spot training on which plays. This way for your team to implement something such as the wildcat you would have to put the preperation into it and if you want multiple players to play multiple spots within the system they would have to practice those.
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