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Old 10-01-2009, 03:43 AM   #169
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

I really wanted to like this game but that O-line experiment just took the wind out of the sails for me. All Pro Left Tackle Walter Jones has just gone down with a season ending injury? No problem - Martin Gramatica is waiting in the free agent pool.

I wish now I hadn't taken the red pill and I'd still be in the Madden Matrix totally oblivious that ratings don't really matter.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:14 AM   #170
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by Glorious Arc
How about making a dynamic ratings?

You show the players hard stats and then have a separate menu that has the dynamic stats. There dynamic stats are dependent upon the hard stats.
I like the dynamic rating idea. Someone mentioned relative (to position) ratings. That makes sense too. Have a table for position vs position and apply modifiers accordingly.

I think another idea would be to leave STR is it is, and make it more important to the outcome and add in weight as a factor as well, but not needing a new set of ratings.

To me the problem is that ratings aren't meaning enough in the win/lose/draw calculation and weight is no impact at all. Make weight a modifier to those chances and make the rating vs rating interaction more meaningful and that would seem to address the problem?

Something like same (or within a close range of difference between weights and STR) win/lose/draw, or perhaps better stated as blocker wins/target wins/draw % chance is 30/30/40

For every 4 lb of difference, increase the win chance by 2% for the heavier player, and decrease the other two by 1% (so it stays at 100%. So if the blocker has 20 lb advantage, the table becomes 40/25/35.

For every 4 pts of strength, increase the win chance by 2% for the heavier player and decrease the other % by 1. So if the blocker has 20 pts STR advantage as well as the weight advantage above, the table is 50/20/30.

So half the time a player with a 20 STR advantage and a 20 lb advantage would win outright. Only 20% of the time he'd lose, and about one time in three, it would be a "stalemate" (no movement off the line, maybe a "chip" instead of a full block, etc)

Of course, throw in technique ratings, block shedding, etc - but that's the kind of modifying I think could be done with the engine as it is.

With this method, probably best just to check the offensive player for ease of determining who the blocker is and who the target is. Reverse it for turnovers (i.e. team who has the ball is the "offense" for the purposes of this calculation).

Last edited by KBLover; 10-01-2009 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:25 AM   #171
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by 2Koalition
yea they banned him. he was like a George Washington for all of us.... but Lincoln is here to free us (RYANMOODY)

history analogy lol
How was apex a George Washington? Washington didn't stir up rebellion or resentment. Samuel Adams would be a better analogy to what Apex does. Makes mountains out of molehills to stir up the populace.

Those guys would slow the game down on all-madden when the computer purposely cheats to challenege the player and then bemoan the issues. SOME of their issues were legitimate but most were chicken little rantings.

If they put that much effort into fighting social injustice imagine the world we would live in!
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:58 AM   #172
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

i just dont see why people are labelled whiners for complaining about things being calculated incorrectly, things promised to be in the game but not included, or things that dont work as they should.

If anyone of us did this at our jobs, we would be fired. Yet you expect me to praise Ian and his team for getting close or improving on last year. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:09 AM   #173
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by PhillyJim76
i just dont see why people are labelled whiners for complaining about things being calculated incorrectly, things promised to be in the game but not included, or things that dont work as they should.

If anyone of us did this at our jobs, we would be fired. Yet you expect me to praise Ian and his team for getting close or improving on last year. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
That's what I don't get. What is the point of calling us whiners? Would you guys oppose the game using ratings correctly? I will never understand that. It's not like we are whining about hand towels. Ratings affect so many parts of the game.

I wish they would strip the game and start over on the OL. Here is how I would do it:

1. Start with "initial push". This should factor in velocity (weight, speed, acceleration, direction), strength and a dice roll. Simple stuff. That determines the direction of the push. Haynesworth versus Gramatica should yield 99.999% of the time move in the favor of Haynesworth due to the attributes of the players.

2. Determin the "win". Reroll using the same parameters. Using the example above, Haynesworth would 99.999% of the time push Gramatica over and continue on to the next assignment.

If you use these few simple attributes, you can develop a solid system. You just need to have the appropriate animations. You need:

1. Push - DL winning
2. Push - OL winning
3. Pancake, knockdown, shove (OL winning animation)
4. Rip, swim, club (DL winning)

There don't even have to be a lot of them. What do yall think?
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:11 PM   #174
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by sois
That's what I don't get. What is the point of calling us whiners? Would you guys oppose the game using ratings correctly? I will never understand that. It's not like we are whining about hand towels. Ratings affect so many parts of the game.
I suspect people who call "whining" are probably getting what they want out of the game or just tired of reading complaints so they just throw all into whining.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sois
I wish they would strip the game and start over on the OL. Here is how I would do it:

1. Start with "initial push". This should factor in velocity (weight, speed, acceleration, direction), strength and a dice roll. Simple stuff. That determines the direction of the push. Haynesworth versus Gramatica should yield 99.999% of the time move in the favor of Haynesworth due to the attributes of the players.

2. Determin the "win". Reroll using the same parameters. Using the example above, Haynesworth would 99.999% of the time push Gramatica over and continue on to the next assignment.

If you use these few simple attributes, you can develop a solid system. You just need to have the appropriate animations. You need:

1. Push - DL winning
2. Push - OL winning
3. Pancake, knockdown, shove (OL winning animation)
4. Rip, swim, club (DL winning)

There don't even have to be a lot of them. What do yall think?

Yeah, I think there's plenty of animations to make the ideas here work (except the outright pancake/knockdown one, though there is this one when the OL pushes the DL to the ground when pass blocking).

Having ACC matter in the initial push is a great idea. Lets the OL come off the snap quickly and potentially explode into the DL. Gives another way for DL to fight too and makes ACC more helpful for the DTs (countering the T/C/G's ACC).
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:34 PM   #175
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by KBLover
Having ACC matter in the initial push is a great idea. Lets the OL come off the snap quickly and potentially explode into the DL. Gives another way for DL to fight too and makes ACC more helpful for the DTs (countering the T/C/G's ACC).
I was watching Dwight Freeney (6'1" 268 lbs) take on Mike Gandy (6'4" 316 lbs) and Freeney just plowed over him because he got such a nice head of steam. All of that solely was due to acceleration.

Freeney was going forward very fast, Gandy was backpedaling very slowly. A very good dice roll would replicate that play. However, the only way a DE should knock down an OT like that is if they have Freeney like acceleration.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:00 PM   #176
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by speedkills
In an effort to have a lighter and quicker offensive line I replaced the Steelers starting O-line with kickers, punters and defensive backs none over 190 lbs. I liked the results:

That stalwart at LT is 170 lb Martin Gramatica who is manhandling the highest rated RE in the game.


This will save me time from having to scout, draft or sign offensive linemen.
I stand corrected. Though in this video Gramatica had no business holding the block for that long against Jared Allen the point is is there a difference between Gramatica at Left Tackle and the highest rated player at that position? To be fair you need a larger sample than 1 or 2 plays.

Whether I trade this game in or not literally depends on this issue so I needed to be absolutely sure. I took the Titans who have the highest rated LT Michael Roos into practice mode against the Ravens who have the RE with the highest power move and break block rating. I ran the exact same empty backfield pass play over and over again first with Gramatica at LT then with Roos. There is no question that ratings make a difference as **on average** Roos did a much better job pass blocking than the converted kicker. There were plays where Gramatica was swatted aside like a fly (which should happen on every play) but that never happened with the Roos at left tackle.


whew.

So, my apologies EA. And I get to continue enjoying this game.
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