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Old 10-01-2009, 01:27 PM   #177
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by speedkills
I stand corrected. Though in this video Gramatica had no business holding the block for that long against Jared Allen the point is is there a difference between Gramatica at Left Tackle and the highest rated player at that position? To be fair you need a larger sample than 1 or 2 plays.

Whether I trade this game in or not literally depends on this issue so I needed to be absolutely sure. I took the Titans who have the highest rated LT Michael Roos into practice mode against the Ravens who have the RE with the highest power move and break block rating. I ran the exact same empty backfield pass play over and over again first with Gramatica at LT then with Roos. There is no question that ratings make a difference as **on average** Roos did a much better job pass blocking than the converted kicker. There were plays where Gramatica was swatted aside like a fly (which should happen on every play) but that never happened with the Roos at left tackle.


whew.

So, my apologies EA. And I get to continue enjoying this game.
This may be true -- but none of those are accurate -- If you did 100 plays I would bet Gramatica would hold his own on 5, win 3, draw 10, and get killed on the rest, etc -- some natural distribution. But when you an entire line of gramaticas there - what would you expect the average result to be. What would you expect the YPC to be in a game, a season, etc.. You would at least expect it to be lower right? I would argue it should be orders of magnitude lower. But do the tests -- I have done seasons after season of test of 12 rated lineman veruses 100 rated and simulated seasons and looked at YPC -- NO statistical difference...!!!
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:30 PM   #178
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by speedkills
Whether I trade this game in or not literally depends on this issue so I needed to be absolutely sure. I took the Titans who have the highest rated LT Michael Roos into practice mode against the Ravens who have the RE with the highest power move and break block rating. I ran the exact same empty backfield pass play over and over again first with Gramatica at LT then with Roos. There is no question that ratings make a difference as **on average** Roos did a much better job pass blocking than the converted kicker. There were plays where Gramatica was swatted aside like a fly (which should happen on every play) but that never happened with the Roos at left tackle.

This is good info, hopefully that means the calculation can be tinkered. It seems there is not a lot of wiggle room in the result, despite a 100 point scale.

There needs to be a bigger consequence for using inferiour talent. Hopefully a calculation fix can be made for this.

Gramatica should not suffice in any instance. Bottom end talent needs to hurt the team more. Since we are looking at the worst case scenario (Gramatica vs Allen), the result should be almost 100% of the time Allen having his way with Gramatica in under a second.

Make the adjustment EA!

Last edited by sois; 10-01-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:32 PM   #179
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

here is what angers me

i think most people here are understanding.

if they came out and said.....a 12 rated o linemen will block well on 20 to 40 percent of plays as a default, maybe then the issue switches to either improving the AI use of depth charts, IR, or locking users out from inserting certain positions at O line.

Instead, we get silence. Why? Is it truly unreasonable to ask for some info on how the ratings truly work?
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:58 PM   #180
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

EA should just hire me. I love this stuff. I love playing with simulations and statistics. I like for every attribute to mean something. Sometimes less is more. I really think you have to start with the basics though.

Strength, weight, acceleration, speed should be the base attributes. All matchups should be based on this primarily.

All of those things are tangible. Every NFL player has this data on file via NFL combine, pro days or some other event. Hell, you can eyeball a lot of this stuff.

Anything else should be modifiers. Wanna give a guy a % modifier for a special skill? Go ahead. Give him a 5% boost when he uses a rip move if he is good at that particular skill. I don't like the 1-100 rating for special skills. They shouldn't factor as much as the base attributes.

How about this EA?
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:59 PM   #181
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu
...and that's the issue that needs fixed.

For the record, while you can't put a punter on the O-line in 2k8 - you CAN create an O-lineman at 5'6 150lbs, bronze with an ability like speed burner or something else unrelated to blocking.... and... guess what, he can block too.

I guess that game is broken now too.
APF has a lot of players from different eras, so sometimes you have a gold offensive linemen who weighs 270 pounds. You also have DTs that are around that weight , but reak havoc on offenses. Now how is that taking physics, size or weight into account ? You should be able to run the ball up the gut all day if with DTs on the defensive side of the ball that weight 270 lbs.
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:16 PM   #182
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

1. We can't see the APF ratings. For all we know, all OL have a min strength of 80.
2. APF is not in development anymore. Why debate about something that can't change?

The sole reason we discuss this stuff is because M11 can change.
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:37 PM   #183
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Guys let me first say this. I never played 2k5, hell I never even saw the disc in real life. None of my friends played it so I didnt, I missed that entire 2k5 golden era.Still to this day havent played it.


But do you guys understand the irony trying to justify problems in madden from 2k5? THE GAME CAME OUT 5 ****ING YEARS AGO.

It seriously blows my mind away that only in the football video game genre is it justifiable to have problem in your game now because its in one that came out half a decade ago. Hell not including the fact that its came out for a dead system (xbox, PS2 is not dead but still)

If I have a problem with Call of Duty, I dont go find videos of Doom II to compare. I dont remember comparing PS1 games to PS2 games either.

My brain just cant not comprehend that referencing 2k5 in anyway someone makes madden look anything but complete trash. The studio that made it doesnt exist, one of the 2 platforms it was on is dead. Ian said that it was his goal to dismiss any 2k comparisons well you guys have proved that he failed on that big time.

Sorry for the swearing.
People are looking for stuff to nit pick with madden 10 and that video proved it. People have been putting 2k5 on a pedestal for years, everybody was in aw of the line play but no one ever pointed this out. It wasn't a problem until they saw it on madden 10. All the people who are still playing 2k5 and updating the rosters obviously don't have a problem with this ; they just have a problem with EA sports.

This proves that people will complain about madden 10 no matter what.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:04 PM   #184
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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People are looking for stuff to nit pick with madden 10 and that video proved it. People have been putting 2k5 on a pedestal for years, everybody was in aw of the line play but no one ever pointed this out. It wasn't a problem until they saw it on madden 10. All the people who are still playing 2k5 and updating the rosters obviously don't have a problem with this ; they just have a problem with EA sports.

This proves that people will complain about madden 10 no matter what.
What does 2k5 have anything to do with the ratings mattering in Madden? I don't care about 2k5. I don't play it. Don't lump us all into that group.

I just want Madden to be better. That starts with the ratings. If ratings don't matter, franchise is broken. If ratings don't work, you can't use strategy to exploit weaknesses. There are no tendencies.

I am here to discuss possible solutions to make the game better. The number one thing wrong with this game is OL vs DL. That starts with the ratings. They have to matter. Size, strength, speed and acceleration have to be emulated properly.

You shouldn't be able to replace the Steelers OL with WR's and kickers and have a successful season. Yeah, maybe for one play or two, Gramatica will be able to trip Peppers, but the results should reflect what would really happen if a kicker lined up vs a DE.
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