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Old 10-02-2009, 01:37 PM   #257
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by countryboy
So you don't know what causes it exactly but you do know that its not ratings based, because ratings don't matter....gotcha
I meant that I'm not the developer, I don't have access to the algorithm. Don't act like you know the definitive answer, because you don't.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:41 PM   #258
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by sois
I meant that I'm not the developer, I don't have access to the algorithm. Don't act like you know the definitive answer, because you don't.


What the hell? Where did I say I knew the definitive answer? LOL...

You said it wasn't ratings based so I was asking why you thought certain things happened and you replied you don't know. No reason to get pissy.

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Old 10-02-2009, 02:13 PM   #259
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

I think you guys are making it too much of a black and white issue, with one side arguing that ratings do what they should and the other side arguing that ratings don't matter at all.

The truth is that ratings matter a little but not nearly as much as they should. A punter playing on the offensive line ought to get tossed aside like a rag doll and should probably end up injured after a play or two. In Madden, a punter holds his own on the line. A Pro Bowl lineman will play marginally better than the punter (will probably hold his blocks slightly longer, etc.), but it ought to be like night and day, and it's not.

So is a Pro Bowl lineman better than a punter on the offensive line? Yeah, a little. But the fact that you can run an effective offense with a solid running game featuring all punters and kickers on the offensive line means that the ratings aren't having anywhere near the effect that they should. The game is pretty much a farce at that point. So when it comes time to re-sign your star left tackle in franchise, and he wants $70 million, there's not much point in signing him when you could get nearly the same production from one of your cheerleaders or a fan in the stands. And thus, franchise is ruined unless you decide to play pretend with yourself and imagine that everything works like it should, like real football works, where a solid offensive line is quite possibly the most important thing you can have.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:43 PM   #260
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Given your response to the defensive shutdown question I asked you and this post, is it your opinion/thought that the game predetermines when a DL is going to dominate an OL or vice versa since OL ratings have no effect?
Hmm.. Not sure to be honest - Havent done significant testing across the board. I have though on the OL/DL interactions and can tell you there is no statiscal outcome difference no matter who you have on the line.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:46 PM   #261
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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I thought this was part of the focus of discussion. If the OL ratings truly do not matter, then:

*How can one game a DL dominate the LOS where the RB is stonewalled at the line when trying to run up the game, but in a different game the RB has holes to run through?

*How do you go from constantly being under pressure from one defensive front four, but the next game you have 5-7 secs to sit back in the pocket and make your reads?

These are things that I've seen happen over the course of my franchise games, the change of success is for both myself and the cpu. So is it the varying ratings of teams OL vs DL that is causing the varying outcomes or is it a predetermined program type thing?
You are confusing outcomes with causality -- If you throw in the air 10 pennies sometimes there could be 10 heads, 10 tails, 5 of each, etc -- All outcomes are different but it dosent mean that each one wasnt comepletely random. And if you did it enough times it will come out to average 5-5.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:57 PM   #262
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu
I think it's obvious from normal playing that a 90 rated lineman is better than a 60 rated lineman. Maybe the difference should be more pronounced, but it's there.
It definitely should be more pronounced. I really can't tell the effectiveness between an elite line and a weak one in my games. Sliders have more impact than the ratings themselves, which is a problem because sliders can't be used to set how much of a difference the human player wants to see.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:08 PM   #263
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by countryboy
*How can one game a DL dominate the LOS where the RB is stonewalled at the line when trying to run up the game, but in a different game the RB has holes to run through?
Randomness. Just like I can replay a quarter of a game 10 times and sometimes getting 5 seconds to throw and sometimes running for my life from the start.

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*How do you go from constantly being under pressure from one defensive front four, but the next game you have 5-7 secs to sit back in the pocket and make your reads?
Randomness. Granted, randomness will be there even if ratings have superb differences in effectiveness, but if that randomness doesn't change based on ratings, then it doesn't matter.

The thing is two games, or replaying the same game two times doesn't indicate much. Now if testing those two games with all CPU and HUM sliders at 50 consistently showed a difference between those two games, then that would show more of a ratings influence (sample size large enough to decrease the chance that things are just the result of randomness, but instead are the presence of other factors).

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Originally Posted by countryboy
So is it the varying ratings of teams OL vs DL that is causing the varying outcomes or is it a predetermined program type thing?
My view is it's mostly randomness. Just like if you played a baseball game and all hitters had the same attributes. Some of them will end up with different stats than others just from randomness.

OL seems similar. Perhaps ratings matter a little, but overall it just feels the same exact way.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #264
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by jwhite1347
You are confusing outcomes with causality -- If you throw in the air 10 pennies sometimes there could be 10 heads, 10 tails, 5 of each, etc -- All outcomes are different but it dosent mean that each one wasnt comepletely random. And if you did it enough times it will come out to average 5-5.
then couldn't we say that ratings have no effect in any sports video game? I mean the outcome has to be either affected by ratings or completely random doesn't it?
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