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Old 10-03-2009, 01:13 PM   #281
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

I agree for most part with what is written below. But what you're forgetting is that we are not just talking about the difference between a 60 OVR and a 80 OVR lineman. I've created lines full of 25 OVR with their blocking ratings as low as 12 OVR and they block the EXACT same as lines where the players range from 70 OVR to 99 OVR. I've even gone to extreme and created lines where I maxed out every player on the line in all the blocking categories and the OVR ratings and they block EXACTLY the same EVERY time as the 25 OVR line. The same goes for the defensive line. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM!!!!

And yes, they need the ratings and need to use a random dice roll (random calculations). But has someone else already pointed, the chance of success needs to be weighted in favor of the player with the higher ratings in that attribute category. That way you'll have the better player win most of the times but not all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTP2110
Best post in the thread. The problem here is that they're trying to have ratings, calculations, percentages, dice rolls, fatigue, & stat balancing all replicate the human element and human interaction. There's just no way the have a computer program accurately reflect the NFL games we see on Sundays.

Anyone remember a few years ago on SNF when Johnathan Ogden was getting his *** handed to him repeatedly. I don't remember the defense, but he was getting waxed. The announcers couldn't believe it, and eventually they had to send a TE over to help. Anyway, if that happened in Madden, people would be crying about how Ogden is a 96 and this 88 DE is blowing him off the line every snap.

Someone mentioned that it sucks that it doesn't matter if you have an 80 rated guy or a 60 rated guy on the o-line, because they play the same. That's really not too far off from real life. Solid o-linemen get hurt all the time, and backups are forced to come in and play. Guess what? The offense still functions! Sure the backup gets blown up a time or two more than the starter. Maybe he gives up a sack that the starter would not have. But just because your team loses two starters doesn't mean that the offense falls completely apart. All these guys are good, at least serviceable players. You should be able to at least get by with the guys you have on the bench. There should be some noticeable difference, but not a huge dramatic one. (I'm not talking about punters & kickers, that's obviously complete BS.)
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:23 PM   #282
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by KBLover
That does make sense.

Actually, this is one reason I think OVR should disappear. OVR doesn't mean anything in the calculation (I'm assuming) but the other ratings do.

So if we compared the 80 to the 60 in his actual blocking abilities, maybe we'd see they are both about the same, just that the 60 has a lot less AWR so he picks up the blitz worse or reacts to stunts slower, but in straight up blocking, he's similar to the 80.
Man start at the beginning of this thread - First post - I lowered ALL Ratings to a 12! Played statistically exactly the same.
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:46 PM   #283
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by jwhite1347
Man start at the beginning of this thread - First post - I lowered ALL Ratings to a 12! Played statistically exactly the same.
maybe there is a ratings floor?

Which would also help explain why kickers and punters have success on the O-Line.
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:01 PM   #284
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Yeah I don't think o-line A.I. is programed to go as low as 12 ovr. If I am programming, I realize even the worst o-linemen in the NFL block fairly effectively. Pretty sure they weren't thinking about "what if someone puts in some punters to block". Like countryboy, I can tell the difference between playing against a good o-line and a bad one in game.

I've always been a 2K guy and never cared for any of the past Madden games, but despite some A.I. issues in other areas (late game) i am enjoying this one.
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:57 PM   #285
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by DreadedSteeler
Yeah I don't think o-line A.I. is programed to go as low as 12 ovr. If I am programming, I realize even the worst o-linemen in the NFL block fairly effectively. Pretty sure they weren't thinking about "what if someone puts in some punters to block". Like countryboy, I can tell the difference between playing against a good o-line and a bad one in game.

I've always been a 2K guy and never cared for any of the past Madden games, but despite some A.I. issues in other areas (late game) i am enjoying this one.
People keep ignoring the fact that this was possible in 2k5, which widely considered the holy grail of football simulations.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:37 PM   #286
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by Dmacho
People keep ignoring the fact that this was possible in 2k5, which widely considered the holy grail of football simulations.
Players get beat in 2k5 though, they dont play much better than a real OT who wont get beat by the first move every time.

The game has to deal with the animation is has. Some of you people act like you expect the DE to pull a firemans carry on the punter to get the sack, or just throw him into the QB. Naturally neither of those are going to be things either game can replicate.

While its clearly unacceptable in either game, I find it much less acceptable in next gen gaming, in a game that claims its detailed (50 cat.) ratings system being what makes it so realistic.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:43 PM   #287
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

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Originally Posted by Dmacho
People keep ignoring the fact that this was possible in 2k5, which widely considered the holy grail of football simulations.
Eh, 2K4 for me. People also ignore the fact that cpu QB play was completely broken in 2K5, they rarely ever scrambled and consistently threw into heavy coverage. QB ratings were meaningless in that regard. I had no desire to use dumbed down defensive ratings as a fix.

I'm definitely not saying o-line play doesn't need improvement because it obviously does. I do think the game is finally moving in the right direction though and hopefully the important issues can be resolved. (3-4 defense for one, though this hasn't been done right in any football game)
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:43 PM   #288
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Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacho
People keep ignoring the fact that this was possible in 2k5, which widely considered the holy grail of football simulations.
It only took a Dline move to toss them out of the way though. In Madden you are in a vacuum.
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