Home
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-19-2009, 08:12 AM   #393
Rookie
 
OVR: 4
Join Date: Aug 2005
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhite1347
All are so true -- I would settle for just a brief explanation of the sliders for one in terms of how they really work and correlate. And second a brief explanation of how the ratings are used to calculate/impact certain dymanmics - e.g. OL/DL Interaction, WR/DB Interaction on pass play, RB/Tackler, etc...

The passion exhibited by us on this message board (good, bad and indifferent) should be music to EA and Ians ears -- we care and just want to make it better where we can and understand where we cant.
what i want but wont get is a simply honest explanation of whats wrong with their engine, why these types of problems dont seem to get better every year. im no programmer, so maybe it would just make my head hurt, but all i want now, is to just know whats goin on
bigdunks4eva is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 11:17 AM   #394
MVP
 
chuckm1961's Arena
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Mar 2005
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

The devil's advocate makes a couple of cases:

--If ratings don't matter in the game, how come I struggle against good teams and not against lousy teams, most of the time?

--Consider the possibility (I know, it's just so easy to say the developers are lazy, the developers are stupid... i.e., I am superior to them, and could do a better job) that the developers are doing the best they can do given the parameters of what they are trying to accomplish. Football is not basketball, not soccer, not baseball. It is probably the most TEAM-focused sport there is. In other words, everything interacts with everything else, and that means the programmers are juggling a thousand different variables and trying to figure out how to balance and weight them. If they make the range of skills for... for example, QB accuracy.... too narrow, there will be no difference between the best and the worst in the league. If they make the range too wide, the best will be too good. Plus they have to factor in: speed, defensive pursuit at the line, db play, route running, and on and on and on and on and on.

Personally, I just enjoy the game for what it is. I don't even bother with any General Manager stuff, because I don't expect it to be realistic. I just play football games and have fun.

[Looking forward to the "but they say the ratings matter" posts! My arguments above suggest that they DO matter, just not as much or in the way you would like.]
__________________
[Insert clever, personally-relevant, or cutting-edge remark, data, link, or picture]
chuckm1961 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 12:17 PM   #395
Hall Of Fame
 
KBLover's Arena
 
OVR: 40
Join Date: Aug 2009
Blog Entries: 14
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckm1961
--If ratings don't matter in the game, how come I struggle against good teams and not against lousy teams, most of the time?
It could be a matter of OVR ratings. It wouldn't surprise me that the team with the higher OVR gets a boost in everything regardless of if the sucky players on the higher overall team should play that well or not.

Let me ask you this - if ratings do matter, why do I not feel the fear/threat of elite players like teams in real life do? Why does it not matter if I have Asmougha, Reed, or some guy with 75 OVR? Why do I not need to pay special attention to the forces on the DL? I don't care if Freeny's there or not, or if Ellis or Haynesworth is in the middle or not. They play just the same as a lower end guy. They all "jump off their blocks" and can penetrate (or not) just the same.

When I'm passing, I don't have to care about who I'm throw at, just if the coverage is there or not. If ratings mattered, it might be better to try to beat the C-grade DB that actually has better coverage than the A-grade corner who might be baiting me into a throw.

Linebackers - I don't have to try to see where "52" is on Baltimore. I don't have to worry about Merriman on the edge any more than I do any LB off the edge. They all can penetrate with the same ability as Merriman. That's not right if ratings mattered. Average linebackers make the same kind of plays as good-elite ones with the same ability (same great catches on INTs, tackling isn't different, the great LBs aren't disruptive or don't force me to gameplan in order to limit the damage they can do, OR, I have to worry about ALL linebackers - and that's not right either. I shouldn't have to be concerned with an average guy as if he was Beason, Willis, Lewis, Suggs, Woodley, etc)


Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckm1961
If they make the range of skills for... for example, QB accuracy.... too narrow, there will be no difference between the best and the worst in the league. If they make the range too wide, the best will be too good. Plus they have to factor in: speed, defensive pursuit at the line, db play, route running, and on and on and on and on and on.
No it wouldn't.

100 Acc could be 66% completion while 60 Acc could be 50% completion (anything lower than 60 is reserved for non QBs)

So a guy with 100 acc would put the ball on the spot 2/3 of the time, on average. How the defense reacts could be done based on AWR (higher AWR = faster reaction time). How could of position would depend on MCV/ZCV (higher = better position in zone and sticking closer to the man in man cov.)

If the defender gets there/in position, picks it or not would depend on catching and how the ball is coming in. Great positioning and high CTH rating would make for a high INT % chance, otherwise they will try for the deflection, or just lay out the WR (perhaps depending on their hit power - hard hitters might just try to hit the WR just as the ball gets there to knock it out).

RTE could be like Acc for WR. 100 RTE would put the WR at the proper spot very often and run the route exactly as the art describes very often.


I don't see any of this. Instead I see SPD being the factor in how fast WR run routes (what's the RTE rating doing). CTH ratings don't matter. LBs with weak CTH might great picks all the time. AWR - don't see the difference between great and weak AWR - either on defense or offense (except perhaps QB)

Pass and Run block ratings - I wish they mattered a lot. If they do matter, not nearly enough, imo. Even on my team, I see a guy like Bannan breaking through the line like he was Ellis or Haynesworth. I see Edwards acting like he's Jared Allen or Mario Williams.

I see weak corners covering like they are great ones (the slider means more to their success than their own ratings, which is half the problem. Slider should tweak, not be the main determining factor).


As far as football being the ultimate team game, it is. However, it still comes down to 1-on-1 interactions a lot of times and the decisions individuals make, and those should happen based on the skills of the players involved. In fact, it might TOO team oriented when it comes to line play (which is a lot of 1-on-1 battles a lot of times, after all your line is as strong as it's weakest member).

WR vs DB in man coverage is 1-on-1 interaction. Whether or not the QB throws to him, and if that ball is completed does depend on the QB accuracy (and the protection he gets - which is 1-on-1 battles in the trenches and the backs in protection if need be, like if the LT gets beat, the FB/HB will try to pick up that rusher) and the ability of the WR to make a play on the ball and the ability of the DB to disrupt that play (more 1-on-1 interaction, though other DBs should flow to help, in zone especially, - which is where their AWR comes in as well as SPD, ACC, AGI to get to the spot.)

The problem many have with ratings is that the 1-on-1 interactions aren't playing out well and don't seem to differ based on the skills of the players in question but more on sliders.

Last edited by KBLover; 10-19-2009 at 12:21 PM.
KBLover is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 10-19-2009, 01:02 PM   #396
Banned
 
OVR: 10
Join Date: Jun 2009
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
Four years? Try a decade or more.

I find it pretty humorous that people are suddenly up in arms over the player ratings not meaning anything. Well, many of us have been aware of that for years. All that's ever really mattered in this series is speed. That, and the CPU gets ratings boosts and cheats on the higher levels. And FIFA is programmed the same way, as is EA's NHL series.

I don't find it sad. I find it the way it is and always has been. Do you get sad that Walmart sells running shoes that fall apart after a week? No, you just stop shopping there.
Ratings have never mattered in Madden, but up until the exclusive license, if you didn't like madden than you had the option of rolling with 2k , EA stopped that so this is all we're ever going to have.

If I was a serious runner I wouldn't shopping for running shoes at Walmart in the first place. Now if I was a serious runner and the ONLY place to get running shoes was Walmart , whose shoes fell apart after week , I'd probably have to change my exercise routine because you can't run miles and miles like serious runners do without proper running shoes. I'd be S.O.L. and I'd have to change my whole workout routine ; I'd have give up doing something that I enjoy. In this case I would be sad.

I'm not really sad ; I'm mad as hell(hope we're allowed to type "hell"). I followed Ians blogs religously for months, everyday. All the interaction , which I realize now was just smoke blown up my a** ; all the blogs caused me to buy into the hype. The thing that really gets me is all the crap they talked about stretching the ratings to make elite players stand out, then when I pop in the game I find out that the ratings mean absolutely means nothing.

What really gets me is that EA continually puts out crap, but takes away my alternatives.

Last edited by Dmacho; 10-19-2009 at 01:05 PM.
Dmacho is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 03:18 PM   #397
Proctor, MN. Go Rails!
 
Vikes1's Arena
 
OVR: 23
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,115
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by baa7
Four years? Try a decade or more.

I find it pretty humorous that people are suddenly up in arms over the player ratings not meaning anything. Well, many of us have been aware of that for years. All that's ever really mattered in this series is speed. That, and the CPU gets ratings boosts and cheats on the higher levels. And FIFA is programmed the same way, as is EA's NHL series.

I don't find it sad. I find it the way it is and always has been.
I agree with ya Baa.

I also...along with many/most others have known for years that the player ratings just don't mean what they should. With the exception of speed. I suppose people seeing video proof of it, really drives the point home for many.

And like you Baa...I doubt Madden is the only offender. I'm just an idiot behind a keyboard....what the hell do I know? But I have my doubts this issue will truly be addressed until possibly the next gen of sports games. To where the player ratings, will be truly meaningful. Jmo.
Vikes1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 03:40 PM   #398
Rookie
 
OVR: 3
Join Date: Oct 2002
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

I have not read this whole thread but all I gotta say is....

I've been watching Minnesota a lot since they seem to always be on TV. All I know is that Jared Allen does not play like that in Madden (especially if he is on the user team). But wow in real life, the guy is unreal.
Levin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 04:00 PM   #399
Banned
 
OVR: 10
Join Date: Jun 2009
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin
I have not read this whole thread but all I gotta say is....

I've been watching Minnesota a lot since they seem to always be on TV. All I know is that Jared Allen does not play like that in Madden (especially if he is on the user team). But wow in real life, the guy is unreal.
In madden 10 Jaren Allen < than anybody that lines up at LDE.

Last edited by Dmacho; 10-19-2009 at 07:02 PM.
Dmacho is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 07:21 PM   #400
Pro
 
OVR: 12
Join Date: Sep 2008
Re: Ratings and The Easter Bunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin
I have not read this whole thread but all I gotta say is....

I've been watching Minnesota a lot since they seem to always be on TV. All I know is that Jared Allen does not play like that in Madden (especially if he is on the user team). But wow in real life, the guy is unreal.
I don't know what you and Dmacho are talking about, I've played with the Vikes a few times and Jared Allen is downright nasty. Against an elite LT he can still get good pressure on the QB and even come away with a sack or two. Against a mediocre LT? It's a feeding frenzy. I played one game where the starting LT got hurt on the first drive and the backup was a 68 OVR. Allen finished the game with 7 total tackles (5 solo + 4 assists), 5 sacks, a FFum, and 12 QB hits.

Unfortunately Favre wasn't playing to hot and I could not get Peterson going on the ground very well, so it was a defensive struggle, I pulled it out 17-14 with a 48 yard FG with 0:35 left in the game.
Dianwei32 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football > Madden NFL Last Gen »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 PM.

Top -