Ratings in APF2K8 and Madden.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by mems1224

lmao the thought process of the fanboy truely is a sight to behold

*shrug*

Label me what you want. I don't care.

If you can make Russell throw like Peyton Manning, more power to you.

I sure can't, especially with my QB Acc at 24, and the AI sure can't with it's QB Acc about as low.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by RMoody

So wait, your saying the game is exploited with certain players? By all means, please tell me who they are. What do you mean when you say Caps that are cheese? If you could cheese in the game using certain guys it would be common knowledge to the point everybody uses the same super players wanting the same unfair advantage. After all the game has been out 4 years. I have played over 300 online games against 125 or so unique players and generally no "team" sticks out in my memory as being a carbon copy on another. As far as cheese on custom players, unless you have unlocked every game achievement you have a pretty strict limit on player abilities. Once you unlocked all 50 achievements you can create a gold player with 5 skills, before that your limited to 3 for gold, 2 for silver and 1 for bronze. Very few (if any) computer created players have less than that. Much like before, if some unbeatable combination of skills was around I would expect it to be common knowledge. Based on your self admitted lack of time with the game, I have a hard time thinking you know things others dont. Especially when it comes down to creating unbeatable teams or cheese players.

You're kidding right? There are endless threads about the cheese in this game known as APF, you must never visit 2ksports. com or 2kfootballstrategy.com. Its common knowledge not to use Earl Campbell because of his ability combination, Power, Workhorse, Stamina, and I belive Branching Tackles been a while since I played the game...or how leagues ban the "Clutch" ability because it handicaps the defenses already suspect A.I. to allow the offensive player a chance to make a play...example Dwight Clark beating silver/gold tier DB's on fades to end the half or game wtf...Dwight F'ing Clark NEVER. Not to mention the on going debate that CAP's are cheese b/c pre-patche guys were making 7' WR's and DB's at 300 lbs same for HB's (this problem still exists on PS3 no patch). I played that game straight for 3 years, I've seen, heard, and played against every type of cheese in that game....ICETHORZEUS' 6'6 WR's (post patch max ht.) where he runs back 20 yards chucks it deep and either one or two things happens his guy out jumps the DB, breaks tackle TD or DB's in position, jumps and is flagged for P.I. I know this b/c I watched it happen for a whole game. As far as attribute combos that are frowned upon HB's with this combo are damn near unstoppable...Workhorse(hb gets better the more carries he gets is the def of this attribute per 2k),Stamina Bonus (now you can run your workhorsse get better per carry and not get tired),Speedburner, Breakawayburst, Power/Finesse and Power,or Battering Ram, play a game vs an HB like that at 6'2 220 and see how much success you have then throw in a 6'6 WR with hops, acrobatic catches, clutch,route god, and speedburner, silver QB with Quick Release and Rocet Arm, and Silver TE/WR with route god, and speedburner. See how much fun you'll be having then.

Now one thing about 2k that was nice was feedback which allowed you to rate players after games Positive, Neutral, Negative so other players could see how guys were rated so that games vs random people you had an idea what you were getting into...this system had flaws but is much better than the DNF% crap which means absolutely nothing.

[hummer24g]

These 2k guys make me angry listen every game has it faults madden is all we have, and it's not going to change.

[TombSong]

The sad part about QB difference in Madden is its not the ratings that seem to matter. They got some gimmick in the game that makes QB's randomly throw bad passes. Its stupid. Random bad passes is not what makes a QB bad. You are what you are. You are either a good QB or a bad QB or somewhere in between.

Madden is terrible at portraying this. The main thing that stands out about the difference in players in madden is SPEED.

In AP2k8, You truely had to consider what QB you had with the type of offense you wished to run. If I wanted to run West Coast and had a generic QB or a tiered QB that did not have good accuracy or could not zip that ball into areas quickly, You were in for some long hard games. Was not because the QB threw random bad passes or the lead pass was made to be off target. It was because your QB really had no arm strength or little accuracy or was not good in the pocket or bad at throwing on the run. There were even QBs in Ap2k8 that threw bad passes when pressure was in their face, it plum rattled them. If you had a "tough as nails" QB he could throw nice passes even if the whole Dline was inches away from sacking him. (JOHNNY UNITAS WAS MY MAN !!!)

I can go a whole game and not have to throw to my "star" WR in Madden and have a GREAT game. My other WR's(3rd and 4th stringers) can have 10+ catches a game. So whats the point of having a Stud WR when the scrubs play just as good ?

In Ap2K8 a generic WR was NOT your go to guy. Some where good in certain situations. Some where good at catching deep balls, but if they were in traffic and had anyone near them they would drop the ball, or could not run short routes well, they would take a long time to come out of their cut making you have to wait that second longer(that may get you sacked) to pass to them.

I could go on and on in other areas of the games but the point is Madden has failed in making players play like their real life counterparts. Yeah you see some difference in players but nothing like you saw in AP2K8.

[JerzeyReign]

I have to play AP2K8 but I do agree Madden is too easy. My QB accuracy is set to 17 and I still have Quinn doing what he wants. I've been trying about everything to keep the CPU D stout but it doesn't work. I've played with/against J. Russell and he does play like a top tier QB majority of the time before sliders are used. It all comes down to sliders. Frankly, I'm getting tired of adjusting sliders to make this game seem real. Everytime I get the "perfect" set I have some crazy 54-49 shootout!!

I honestly think they should hide the ratings, and have a system similar to AP. Have player tendencies or something like that. But I really have to go find AP to see what the fuss is about

[Argooos]

I think this is a valid issue. The ratings truly don't seem to matter very much when the AI is controlling the players. Once the user takes control, you can generally feel the difference (I for one vividly remember when my star WR got injured in franchise I just couldn't complete many passes to his backup).
There are many many threads on this site alone that detail the many ways in which the ratings in madden don't matter when the AI is in control. It seems like the difficulty settings/sliders matter much more than ratings in determining how well players will perform.
The problem is that if EA managed to fix their engine in a way that made ratings matter more in gameplay, it would create an even bigger problem. If ratings mattered more, the AI would have to start using real football strategy. If the stud WR is now dominant, the AI would have to know to pass to that WR more, even when he's covered. If the HB can't run outside the tackles, the AI would have to know not to call that kind of play for that player.
I believe that this is the real reason that fixing what ratings do is not a priority for the development team. Fixing this issue would only expose an even bigger issue. It's an issue that most people are already aware of, and it's that the AI in Madden doesn't know how to play football properly.

[TheCreep]

Quote: Originally Posted by Methlab

2k's AI and animations are better because they do not put the CPU resources into the graphics as much as Madden. So to get that type of gameplay and interaction, EA would need to redesign the look of their game. Personally, I would prefer less detailed graphics that still look good due to creativity in the graphics department. There are still limits to what can be done. I am just repeating what Ian has said about the Madden graphics. He has been clear that the level of detail put into the graphics affects other things, which makes compelete sense.

Quoted for truth right there. He also stated that people would complain if the graphics took a hit, so they're basically stuck with that level of detail now.

Personally, I think I could deal with slight graphics downgrade to open up more resources to stretch to other parts of the game. Especially stadium detail. I know I've read that. The stadiums take up too many resources.

I think they should shave just a wee bit off of the stadiums and playermodels. Just enough so that it isn't too noticeable but enough to disperse more to AI, animations, and sidelines.

[Dianwei32]

Quote: Originally Posted by RMoody

So wait, your saying the game is exploited with certain players? By all means, please tell me who they are. What do you mean when you say Caps that are cheese? If you could cheese in the game using certain guys it would be common knowledge to the point everybody uses the same super players wanting the same unfair advantage. After all the game has been out 4 years. I have played over 300 online games against 125 or so unique players and generally no "team" sticks out in my memory as being a carbon copy on another. As far as cheese on custom players, unless you have unlocked every game achievement you have a pretty strict limit on player abilities. Once you unlocked all 50 achievements you can create a gold player with 5 skills, before that your limited to 3 for gold, 2 for silver and 1 for bronze. Very few (if any) computer created players have less than that. Much like before, if some unbeatable combination of skills was around I would expect it to be common knowledge. Based on your self admitted lack of time with the game, I have a hard time thinking you know things others dont. Especially when it comes down to creating unbeatable teams or cheese players.

Where did I ever admit that I had a lack of time with APF? I played it for a long time, I logged almost 300 games on it (just like you).

There are plenty of guys who are overpowered, look at Earl Campbell, he was so bad they actually had to patch the game to make him less effective (a patch that the PS3 never got, so Campbell is still nigh unstoppable). You're telling me that you've never come across a 5 ability CAP WR with Route God, Acrobatic Catches, Speed Burner, Bump Buster and Breakaway Burst? That WR would smoke even Charles Woodson all day long. For pass rushing? Two words: Elvin Bethea. You could have just him on the line and unless the other guy invested in a Gold LT (which no one does because legend OL are worthless) it was cake to get 5-6 sacks a game.

Not to mention, almost any CAP Gold HB with Branching Tackles was exceedingly effective. Especially ones that were bigger and were Power HBs, make a HB that is 6'2", 230 lbs, and give him Branching Tackles, Workhorse and Power and he'll be nearly impossible to bring down one-on-one.

Again, I'm not trying to put down APF, it was a great game and it had its areas it excelled in (like the run game and OL/DL interaction), but there are also areas it was weak in (lack of an immersive franchise/season mode, poor DB AI).