Other EA games can be rebuilt from the ground up in one year. Why cant madden?

[northface28]

Quote: Originally Posted by cpdfrank

Im tired of hearing, football is hard game to develope. Ian this, Ian that. Madden is not a ground breaking new game, it has been around for about 21 years. How many years does it take to fix issues that we have been seeing for years? Stop defending EA, Tiburon, and now the great Ian Cummings. This game needs to be fixed, or allow the game players to have an option again on what NFL game to buy.

Okay, then fix it yourself.

[Joborule]

NHL, FIFA, and Madden are all using the engine that was built in 2005-2006 for the Xbox 360. To simply restart the overall game base within a year isn't feasible. It takes years to get an fresh game packed with features.

Quote: Originally Posted by d'ultimate

I like how people continue to assert this as fact all the time with no prove. They just know.

Sports games in general are difficult to program since there is a lot of decision making and animations transitions going on constantly during the play. Football though I would believe is more difficult to do then hockey and soccer because you have to set AI and differences in animations transparencies for 22 players all at the same time compare to 12 players on the ice or 22 players on the field where some may be in lax AI.

In football, once that ball is snapped, you need the linemen to go after their target and then engage in a block and the defender from going where he wants to go, receiver will have to run to a specific route, or go find a defender to block. Running backs will get the ball and will have to find an appropriate hole to run into or pick a target to block unless their going on a passing route. Lets not forget for receivers that they do have option routes that they have to chose what to do on the fly.

Then we get to the quarter, when if passing, have to scan the play and react on the fly to pass to a certain receiver, or scramble out, or use QB avoidance, ect.

That's a lot going on just for the offense side, nevermind the defensive side. Therefore a lot of AI and animations are occuring on the fly with in the first second of the snap. Thats a lot of work that goes on compare to a hockey game or soccer game where player movement and positioning is a lot more simple. I think it's a given that football is more harder to program since it a very stragtic, knowledge game where each player excution is important in the success of the play.

[d'ultimate]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

NHL, FIFA, and Madden are all using the engine that was built in 2005-2006 for the Xbox 360.

Yet NHL, and FIFA have made dramatic improvements whereas Madden has baby stepped its way to this point. A point of mediocrity in Football gaming some would say.

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

Football though I would believe is more difficult to do then hockey and soccer

Key words are bolded. It is you're opinion and everything you state after it is as well. That does not prove anything. Its just more excuses for EA Tiburon to run roughshod over the consumer.

[Murkurial]

Quote: Originally Posted by d'ultimate

Yet NHL, and FIFA have made dramatic improvements whereas Madden has baby stepped its way to this point. A point of mediocrity in Football gaming some would say.

Depends on whether you're looking for a sim or an arcade-style soccer game. FIFA's made improvements over 07 but on a whole it's really nothing to write home about unless you're not fully aware of how the game plays out in real life. If you enjoy the more fast-paced arcade-style play, then yes FIFA's improved "dramatically."

I suppose I'd chalk it up to people here not being too into either soccer or hockey to have many complaints about the game. I know nothing about the recent NHL games so I can't even speak on that (it could have it's glaring issues too) but for all the complaints about Madden, there's just as much, if not more, being made about FIFA as well. It's certainly not as shining an example of developers making huge strides as some people try to make it out to be.

[Joborule]

Quote: Originally Posted by d'ultimate

Yet NHL, and FIFA have made dramatic improvements whereas Madden has baby stepped its way to this point. A point of mediocrity in Football gaming some would say. Key words are bolded. It is you're opinion and everything you state after it is as well. That does not prove anything. Its just more excuses for EA Tiburon to run roughshod over the consumer.

So what makes your think that is not the case and hockey and soccer is harder to make. Either way, why does that impact the development of the games NHL, FIFA, and Madden?

[stux]

< >

_ Insert magic 8 ball excsuse here __







But all sign points to money.......

[rjsuperfly66]

I skipped reading most of this because it got unbearable. Here is my two cents from what I saw.

Someone said that hes seen 100 games w/ better graphics, etc. Well for that moron, you cant compare Madden to a game like Halo, Call of Duty, etc where they have almost two full years to develop their game. They also dont have to release on a deadline, so if they want to push the release back 4 months, they are allowed to. You are not really allowed to do that with sports games, you might be able to push them back a week or 2, but EA would get murdered if they released Madden when the playoffs started.

Like many have said, football has 100x more the interactions then FIFA or NHL. In Fifa, yes players move around, but most of the focus is on the on-ball interaction. If a team on the attack, there is about 6-8 players on the field not doing anything (defense and opposing attack). Goalies stand there and really do nothing, so thats 2 more players. And yet I still find reaction times in Fifa to be weak and unrealistic. Its very simple to cut right through defense with a striker and go one on one with goalie, which might happen once out of every 20 matches I watch.

In NHL there is decent interaction, but remember the on-screen play is really only 5-5, much easier to figure out then 11-11. Its easier to spot on-screen weaknesses and fix them when a game has less going on, and thats common knowledge.

As for Madden, every player on the field is important to the play at hand. As stated by others, every play on offense has an assignment. The qb, the running back, the line, they are all interacting heavily with other players on the field. Same thing on defense, where while in a man or zone, players interact with the offense.

In my opinion, EA has slowly improved Madden every year since it has been on next gen. Sure there are things wrong, but hopefully next year when they maybe getting blocking right and fix the defense in coverage and overall player movements, this could easily be the best sports game ever.

[Soodmeg]

I have always found it funny when someone comes into a thread and their first words are, "I didnt read anything because everyone else is stupid.......now listen to what I have to say."

Do you think they know that if you insult people right off the bat no one will read nor care about what you said?

Anyway, I am very similar with soccer as I have been playing my entire life including college. Yes there are complaints about Fifa but no where near the amount about madden nor is fifa as far away of representing its sport as madden is. Having played both PES and Fifa through the ages I can clearly see the huge strides that Fifa has made and the lack of effort by PES.

To say that Fifa isnt anything to write home is really stretching it though.

There are things in football that are just flat out ignored in madden. I also still do not buy this bull**** excuse that football is somehow more complex. Most of the game is all predetermined.

Think about it. All the routes in the game are all predetermined...in fact that are so predetermined that your guys will run that route regardless of what is happening around him. The players are not aware of the sidelines, other players, refs, endzones, height of the ball.

I cant believe that have the nerve to put Larry Fitz on the cover but there isnt a single jump ball animation. THATS ALL HE DOES!

How is defense complex? Half the time the defenders simply run the same route the offensive players do...love watching a DB cut 2 seconds before the WR even starts his route. When they are in zone they basically stand there until they speed warp in the ball or players...they are not play a zone they are just standing there.


Now I can agree that it might be harder to replicate certain situations that happen in football (jump balls) but by no means can the basic fundamentals be any more complex than any other sports game.



But the bottom line is still this. What makes it so that madden can not represent aspects of football?Pro Tak is a step in the right direction and I have said that but I would love something like...I dont know double teams for linemen so that if my guard doesnt have a DT in front of him he wont spin in a circle. You guys say the OL is greatly improved but it still relies heavily on physic back side blockers.