Other EA games can be rebuilt from the ground up in one year. Why cant madden?

[Soodmeg]

There has been a lot of talk about reworking the madden engine and most of the time the primary excuse as to why this cant be done is that you cant rework a engine in one year.

Says Who?

EA's Fifa 09 and Fifa 10 along wiht EA's NHL 09 and NHL 10 (not so much but still) are prime examples of gamer developers saying to themselves, "This does not work..scrap it and build something that does," and in both cases it worked perfectly.

I am no programmer but I can only assume it has to be at least 10 times harder to program a NHL game and 20 times harder to program a soccer game. This is due to the continues movement of the players and the fact that the ball and the puck have to be completely self standing with its own physics separate from the players.

Hell most of football is running down lines that are predetermined so in all honestly I just dont buy the excuse that they cant scrap this engine and build another one. Fifa and NHL didnt even scrap the entire engine but they did rebuild huge portions of the game within one years time.

I really hate to say this because its so cliche now but I really think I have given EA Madden enough chances to get it right. I dont understand why game under the same company can make huge strides in the terms of gameplay yet Madden still sits stagnant.

[bigsmallwood]

Well in the other sports categories, they have competition....withthe NFL and NCAA Football, they own the license....therefore EA decides to put in minimal work per year in order to keep folks buying the game year after year. Its sad but unfortunately true.

[cpdfrank]

bigsmallwood is exactly right. There is no reason for EA and Tiburon to make a major change in the game engine, because there is no competition, and we keep buying the game. Even if their sales have fallen off a little, it doesnt matter, because they are still generating enough sales, which tells them we are satisfied with the game they are currently putting out.

[Dmacho]

Quote: Originally Posted by Soodmeg

There has been a lot of talk about reworking the madden engine and most of the time the primary excuse as to why this cant be done is that you cant rework a engine in one year. Says Who? EA's Fifa 09 and Fifa 10 along wiht EA's NHL 09 and NHL 10 (not so much but still) are prime examples of gamer developers saying to themselves, "This does not work..scrap it and build something that does," and in both cases it worked perfectly. I am no programmer but I can only assume it has to be at least 10 times harder to program a NHL game and 20 times harder to program a soccer game. This is due to the continues movement of the players and the fact that the ball and the puck have to be completely self standing with its own physics separate from the players. Hell most of football is running down lines that are predetermined so in all honestly I just dont buy the excuse that they cant scrap this engine and build another one. Fifa and NHL didnt even scrap the entire engine but they did rebuild huge portions of the game within one years time. I really hate to say this because its so cliche now but I really think I have given EA Madden enough chances to get it right. I dont understand why game under the same company can make huge strides in the terms of gameplay yet Madden still sits stagnant.

Actually, it's the opposite. A football video game is much more difficult to develope than a hockey or soccer game. In Hockey you 6 players on the ice at one time, and while soccer(if I'm not mistaken) has the same amount of players on the field at one time, the interactions aren't nearly as complex. In a hockey or soccer game, the majority of the interactions are one on one, some may be 2 on 1, but the rest of the characters in the enviroment are skating or running around. In football, every character on the field is interacting with another character or carrying out an assigment, whethers that's a passing route, covering a receiver, blocking or sitting back in zone coverage.

Also, Ian posted a thread disproving the notion that video games operate on a single engine. Games run on variety of engines.

[sportyguyfl31]

Football isnt easy.


yes, there are core basics, that I expect to be accurately depicted in any sports game. Otherwise, what is the point?

I'm not an EA conspiracy theorist..I dont believe they are lazy..holding out on us..blah blah blah.

I question the talent and the decision making.

I

[Netherscourge]

Well, you got 22 players on a field at the same time, all with different jobs for starters. Then you got all the offensive and defensive assignments, situations, rules, downs, play clocks, game clock, time outs, challenges, penalties, substitutions, audibles, etc... etc... How many other games have 22 players on the field at one time and all those other variables to track in real time? 1 year is not enough time to rebuild Madden - that's why they need to take a year off from their release schedule to get more into the game. But their contract with the NFL forbids that - so we get the same game every year with some small upgrades - whatever they can squeeze out every 12 months. It sucks, but that's all they got for us until the NFL license deal expires and other developers can get back into the competition.

[Homecourt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dmacho

Also, Ian posted a thread disproving the notion that video operate on a single engine. Games run on variety of engines.

Yeah. I read this and it was very informative, but it still did nothing to negate the idea that any one or all four of those 'engines' could/should be rebuilt.

So people shouldn't say "rebuild the engine" anymore, but that's semantics if you ask me.

[Soodmeg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dmacho

Actually, it's the opposite. A football video game is much more difficult to develope than a hockey or soccer game. In Hockey you 6 players on the ice at one time, and while soccer(if I'm not mistaken) has the same amount of players on the field at one time, the interactions aren't nearly as complex. In a hockey or soccer game, the majority of the interactions one on one, some may be 2 on 1, but the rest of the characters in the enviroment skating or running around. In football, every character on the field is interacting with another character or carrying out an assigment, whethers that's a passing route, covering a receiver, blocking or sitting back in zone coverage. Also, Ian posted a thread disproving the notion that video operate on a single engine. Games run on variety of engines.

EDIT: I understand that I shouldnt use "rebuild the engine," that is just a expression.


I dont know, I dont really buy that. Soccer has 22 players on the field, 20 of them are all doing separate things providing that the goal keepers are just standing there when the ball is in the middle of the field.

Obviously you dont know much about soccer which is totally fine but I assume you havent played any soccer games. The complexity of a ball moving completely independent from everything else unless interacted is much more involving then having a WR run straight and then to the right. In my opinion of course. Also, the same zone logic is expressed in Fifa much better than Madden. If I had a Left Back standing in one spot and a striker ran by him...that LB would turn and run with that player simply because he entered his zone.

That same logic of...here is a predetermined zone, if someone moves into that zone you should move towards them is completely lost on most madden plays.

But that doesnt matter. The fact is that only a few years ago Fifa didnt have the tech to make the ball separate from players feet. The ball would sort of attached to a players feet with a animation playing like he was running. Similar to when the football just magical teleports into someones hands.

That was only a few years ago. Now they built an entire physics engine on just the ball alone so its completely non scripted. They did that in like 2 years...along with hundreds of other massive upgrades.

None of us are programmers, I understand that the degree of difficulty on games vary but you can not possible convince me that some how Madden is a Modern Marvel of programming and only guys from Harvard and MIT can work on it. It cant be that much harder than NBA 2k10, NBA live, Fifa, NHL and all the other sports game that have made huge strides in years time.


The bottom line is that I see other games taking huge strides in making their games better yet Madden barely does anything. Yeah, Pro Tak is pretty cool but its not revolutionary nor is it actually new the animations I see in Pro Tak seem to be about the same as the ones I saw in 2k5 and 2k8.

I agree with the first 2 responses, it has to be because of the lack of competition, something I extremely disagree with but didnt want to use as an excuse.