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Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and other

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Old 10-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #17
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

BTW there have been reports that have emmitt running a 4.55 40 yard so I would have to take that into more consideration than a combine 40 which would have him @ an 87 ehich is good. If anything Emmitt smith proves that quickness rules over speed becasue he wasnt fast by any means but his quickness is what allowed him to break those runs. QUICKNESS is all of yall's "game speed".
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:44 PM   #18
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

40 times are way overrated, especially when playing a game like Madden where speed has always been the dominant attribute. Also, as mentioned, there is a huge difference between football speed and game speed or running in shorts vs. running in pads.

Larry Fitzgerald didn't really run away from Troy Polamalu in the Super Bowl, he caught the ball in between both safeties and then just took off. Polamalu never had a good angle to catch him and Larry caught the ball on the run while Troy had to turn and run. That was not a good example.

The Fitzgeraled example also doesn't take into consideration fatigue. Some guys keep their top speed longer into the game. That was one of the things that people said made Tomlinson so good in his prime: his game speed was always top notch in the 4th quarter while other guys were tiring.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:53 PM   #19
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

You cant use a single play nor can you use a highlight reel to prove a players ability. You cant use combine stats to determine a true players physical ability. These things can only give you a general idea of a players ability to be fast or to play well.

Highlight reels are the best of the best of a players ability when they perform. Just because you made one great catch doesn't mean you have great hands. It means you had one good moment. What a player does on a consistent basis defines your ability. I did not mean for you to set the term that one play matters that much. I was just simply showing you that 40 times are only for a general definition of a players speed.

Dont take that one example overboard because obviously it would be the foolish thing to do.

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Where are your links with your info? No offense, but if you cant provide them then you are just a troll trying to stir things up. Either way I am done because we clearly disagree and it is pointless to keep posting.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:55 PM   #20
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palo20
40 times are way overrated, especially when playing a game like Madden where speed has always been the dominant attribute. Also, as mentioned, there is a huge difference between football speed and game speed or running in shorts vs. running in pads.

Larry Fitzgerald didn't really run away from Troy Polamalu in the Super Bowl, he caught the ball in between both safeties and then just took off. Polamalu never had a good angle to catch him and Larry caught the ball on the run while Troy had to turn and run. That was not a good example.

The Fitzgeraled example also doesn't take into consideration fatigue. Some guys keep their top speed longer into the game. That was one of the things that people said made Tomlinson so good in his prime: his game speed was always top notch in the 4th quarter while other guys were tiring.
OK so the base line stats dont lie while other ratings take into effect. Stamina and other ratings. Look all this chart I made was is for someone who hated thier players rating and felt it was off so in order to adjust it they could plug the info into this chart and get a comparable rating that was realistic. No a complete overhaul. Also, speed is speed man. WHile shorts and pads are a completley different, the baseline you get is the same. Either he can get off the line or he cant, either he can pick up speed along the way or he cant, either he has the ability to see the field or not. Simple as that
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:15 PM   #21
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

The play where rick williams caught the screen pass and ran it for a big game before revis ran him down proves my point fully. Speed does matter in seperating players and it is determined by the 40. All of rick williams "game speed" couldnt keep darell revis from fetching him. He was striding at that.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:48 PM   #22
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneck48
OK so the base line stats dont lie while other ratings take into effect. Stamina and other ratings. Look all this chart I made was is for someone who hated thier players rating and felt it was off so in order to adjust it they could plug the info into this chart and get a comparable rating that was realistic. No a complete overhaul. Also, speed is speed man. WHile shorts and pads are a completley different, the baseline you get is the same. Either he can get off the line or he cant, either he can pick up speed along the way or he cant, either he has the ability to see the field or not. Simple as that
I'm not hating on your system, I'm just saying that ratings in Madden are used to make the game play realistically. I think we'd all agree that until this year, Madden hasn't done a good job of incorporating the other ratings to have meaning--it's been speed all the way. This is still true at times.

There have been many elite speed athletes fail in the NFL, and it is for the reasons you mentioned: vision, instincts, route running, etc. But until Madden perfectly depicts those things, then speed may have to be altered a bit to make the players play properly.

Anyway, I've just never really been a fan of combine times, especially for guys that have been in the league for a number of years. As mentioned above, players train specifically for the combine: they learn how to get off the line, minimize their steps, and other "tricks" to do well on that one training day. I've been around players who have knocked .2 sec off their 40 time, or .4 sec off their shuttle time, just by using proper technique for that particular drill, but without really changing their straight line speed.

I think Matt Jones was a good example of a lack of game speed. His combine was unbelievable and he didn't run away from anyone in his few years with the Jags despite his 4.37 combine 40. He played like a 4.8 guy.


This is the play that keeps Ben Watson's speed rating where it is, completely outrunning Champ Bailey from across the field:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_17hMuExqP0
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:34 PM   #23
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

I hear ya. I dont rely on the combine. If I hate the speed rating of a certain player I find video, several 40 times he has run to get an idea of a good medium, and find the 10 and 20 yard if I can then I adjust with the ratings chart I made. Thing thing is when you make the ratings poor in the speed department like it is, where the majority of safeties run like LOW 80's to high 70's, what happens is it allows you to exploit the deep ball anyway with a faster reciever. Like kerry rhodes for the jets, look at his speed. Its dumb. I mean hes not the fastes but not by any means the slowest! Hes at least an 90 speed but hes not good with the acceleration which I would give it an 86. (Based off of his 10, 20, 40 yard time at both his pro day and combine) Thats just one rating. There are several others that just dont make sense.

BTW: that was an awesome video! Love the hustle and the hit. I never said watson couldnt be fast, my argument was that WR vincent jackson is not slower than he is. Great find though, made me like ol watson more!
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:42 PM   #24
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Re: Madden gameplay solution in regards to player performance and stats (simmed and o

Fun little statistic that I just found out while seeing WR ginn burning CB revis. Might be just a coincidense but here ya go:

Revis Ginn Jr

40 time 40 time
AVG - 4.38 AVG - 4.38
Low - 4.35 Low - 4.32

20 yard split - 2.49 20 yard split - 2.48
10 yard split - 1.46 10 yard split - 1.46

Seeing that was great, looks like that speed actually came into play. 40 times do matter to a degree when it is evaluated. Heres a prime thing. If your drafting a highly touted play such as saaaay do we all remember RB maurice clarett? How about Mike williams? No wait, dewayne jarrett? No no no, WR peter Warrick and RB sherman williams are my favs. Had awesome "game speed" in college until they were exposed in the combine AND when teams like the cowboys (RB williams) and bengals (WR warrick) took a chance on them based on film and "gamespeed" it burned them. Heres some videos for yall's viewing pleasure though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFJ9vXrhOQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiszpbUi9Sw
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