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Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Old 10-14-2009, 01:14 AM   #9
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

This post brings back memories. I wish I still had my SNES. I do like the old "attack', "read", and "cover" system. Sliding wouldn't work so well nowdays in my opinion.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:47 PM   #10
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Originally Posted by mjswooosh

When 2K sports hit the scene they managed to create a game that was a more accurate simulation while also amazingly being more fun to play.
The 2k games are somewhat realistic, I think 2k5 is a good game, I just hate the way players tackle in that game, it reminds of NFL Blitz. Other than that, its a solid game. I also like the team specific playbooks. But still it just doesn't have that "sliding" effect, which I think a football game needs. In 2k5 players can turn on a dime with ease.

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EA saw the writing on the wall and began the slow and painful process of trying to transform Madden into more of a sim
I don't know what you're talking about here... Madden has always out-sold the 2K games.

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They were trying to respond to market demand/competition,
There never has been any competition for Madden. The last game that showed signs of competing with Madden was Joe Montana Football on the Genesis way back in the early 90s, since then Madden has dominated. Gameday on the PsX made headway in the market but Madden still owned it.

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However, what we have here is still FAR, FAR from a true sim.
We're never going to see a true sim... its imposible to get sprites to react like REAL football players. We can "copy" the sport visually but we'll never see an accurate simulation of "football" strategy in a video game. However, the early versions of Madden showed "signs" of true simulation but EA took that out of the game.

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The flat passes are nearly unstoppable, even after the patch.
I haven't spent that much time with Madden 10 on the 360 or PS3, I've heard people complain about this. But the problem is there is no defense programmed into the game that can consistently stop it, this is the real issue. I think flats should work often but not ALL THE TIME. If you watch real football, throwing into the flats is usually very effective, if you want to make a simualtion of the game of football then throwing into the flats has to be a viable play that users will use. This is what forces players to manually cover the flats or call a defensive play that will contain it or stop it. But iit should be up to the offensive player to guess what kind of defense his opponent is using. This is what would make the game a "sim" if thats what you REALLY want. If you're covering the middle with your linebackers then obviously throwing into the flats should work and if you're covering the flats with linebackers then obviously throwing over the middle should work but not EVERY time.

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I'm not sure why you are complaining about this since if what you want is the ability to pass into the flats at will,
Never said I think it should work all the time just often enough to make the defense respect it.

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In REAL NFL football, sweeps & tosses almost never work
Perhaps but I do see plays that are similar to sweeps in the NFL when they pull a guard or tackle and are able to 'turn the corner' on defenses quite often. If you really want a simulation of football 'turning the corner' has to be a viable tactic. Again, the reason is because it forces the defense to cover it and that opens up the passing plays. Its all about guessing what your opponent is going to do. Without this basic football concept we can never have a "simulation" of football, which is what some of us would like to have.

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Even superhuman speedsters at RB have difficulty turning the corner on sweeps in the real NFL on a consistent basis.
I have to disagree with this, I do see players turn the corner on defenses quite often in pro football. Again, a simulation of football MUST HAVE this element. Teams are always trying to turn the corner with either passes into the flat or runs to the outside.

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tosses work far more often than not...almost to the point of absurdity.
Which is why there should be a play that can stop it or atleast contain it. Unfortunately, EA has screwed this up in M10. But its still something that needs to be in a football game to make it a "simulation" and without this, it can't be a simulation.

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I'm able to avoid the rush fairly consistently in Madden 10 with most mobile QBs.
Thats really wierd, I just can't seem to avoid the rush in Madden, especially when playing online. I'm used to playing the Ps2 version though. So maybe thats why its different?


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"Sliding" players...especially QBs...in a modern football game is simply a horrible, horrible idea Going backwards to superhuman QBs who can "slide" and avoid the pass rush for 10 or 15 seconds so they can throw 50 yard bombs every other play is not a recipe for a good football SIM.
I get this feeling that you guys don't know what I mean by sliding. I'll explain it this way... it would be like playing on a frozen lake, almost like playing with ice skates on. Players slide but its not so exaggerated that you can hold the ball for 10 or 15 secs. I don't know where you got that from??? Thats NOT what I'm suggesting. The point of giving a game that sliding effect is to make it posible to dodge blitzers and to allow players to juke people with just the analog stick alone, and it help on turning the corner too. But mainly it allows you to buy an extra second or two on passing plays and I can't tell you the number of times I've played Madden against people that blitz on EVERY play. It is really hard to get away from blitzes in this game for a couple of reasons. The QB is slow in the pocket, and cornerbacks stick to wide recievers like glue. EA had to put in a speed burst "cheat" for recievers, just so they can get open on crossing routes. If the game had the slide effect, it would eliminate the need to put in "cheats" for the game and would force players to call plays that actually counter what their opponent is doing.


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a modern football game needs to provide elements of realism while still being fun
The slide effect would still give the game a "realistic feel" and be a lot of fun. I mean, think about it, how many times have you seen QBs dodge linemen and throw a pass for a first down in real football? It happens a lot. But in video football it doesn't happen that often.


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if want to play purely arcade football, then stick to the old versions.
Unfortunately, I think there has to be some kind of arcadish element in the game to keep it fun. Even 2k5 had a "gamey" feel to it. I think a complete sim would probably be quite boring. I just want a game that simulates football strategy and if it has an arcadey feel, fine... but I want it to duplicate the tactics and strategys we see in real football.


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stands right now, Madden 10 is a sim/arcade hybrid but the sim portion is totally broken and the slider system/stats of the players are mostly window dressing that make virtually no difference to the outcome of the games.
See, the thing is, sliders are fine but if you really want to simulate the sport it has to come down to PLAY CALLING, not player ratings, althouhg it is important. Play calling is what would make the game realistic. You know, sliders are just another skill level setting. Without implementing some kind of realism in to the play calling it can never ever be a sim.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:48 PM   #11
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Originally Posted by roots3003
Sliding wouldn't work so well nowdays in my opinion.
I would imagine a lot of people would complain about it at first but once they see how much it improves the game they would love it.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:26 PM   #12
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Originally Posted by baseballsim
"sliding around" feeling

I'm not sure what you meant. This reminds me of NBA2K basketball where a player would knock the other player out of bounds but that guy would then be able to slide back onto the basketball court without falling to the ground.

"read", "attack" or "cover"
There's plenty of strategy in Madden. You can run "attack" blitzes or "cover" 3 defenses, etc...

1. I thought the flats in Madden were broken (too easy for the offense). I think they are expected to fix this in Patch #2.

2. Toss plays seem to be unstopable in Madden 10.

3. So, you want to be able to see QBs like Michael Vick scrambling around the field, dropping back 10 yards and heaving a 50 yard pass into the end zone?
Basically, he wishes he could cheese like he used to do . lol
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #13
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EA should just hire some real nfl coaches that aren't coaching that year and would be able to help them develop real football strategies and gameplay into the game. Now I know some of you might be saying, why would they want advice from unemployed coaches...well, they should at least be able to prvide the basics of football which Madden seems to lack in most areas. What do you guys think?
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:44 PM   #14
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Originally Posted by Dmacho
Basically, he wishes he could cheese like he used to do . lol
LOL! Not exactly but if a QB like Vick was rolling out a lot you should be able to counter that with blitzes. QB spy doesn't seem to work in Madden but something should be programmed into the AI that can stop or atleast contain a QB that rolls out a lot. Again, its all in the play calling.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:47 PM   #15
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Re: Gameplay issues, classic Madden and what EA should do with this game....

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Originally Posted by ktipton87
EA should just hire some real nfl coaches that aren't coaching that year and would be able to help them develop real football strategies and gameplay into the game.
They do get advice from Madden... the problem with EA is they don't spend enough time with Defensive AI. Everything is centered around graphics and offensive cheese...
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