What 2011 needs desperately(IMO of course)

[canes21]

Okay, I made this topic in the NCAA boards, but I feel much can be said about Madden 10 too and I would like to hear your guys' feedback as well as the NCAA guys.

Quote:

I'll go ahead and say I will take improved gameplay and no presentation changes and be happy next year. Heres what 2011 needs before presentation gets a overhaul. 1) Physics physics physics.... This game has no physics. As it stands now players can literally "turn on a dime". I mean literally too. You can run full speed up the sideline, turn while still holding the sprint in and be going parallel with the goal line with no chopping of the feat at all. You basically control Pac-Man in a football player costume. NCAA 2011 needs to exaggerate physics to represent a true sim. If I want to cut up into a hole, my player needs to automatically chop his feet and slow himself down and then cut up field and try to reach top speed. Instead of 2010 where I can cut into the whole in under a second. I want a cut to take at least a second for the MOST agile players in the game. If I want to cut up with a Brandon Jacobs type guy, make the cut take up to 2 or more seconds. An exaggerated physics system will play much better than a system that currently represents no physics. Also, players need to lean when turning. Thats what made last-gen games look good. When you ran, you leaned and took time to turn. In 2010, you turn with no lean and it looks worse than backyard football(the game). Exaggerate this too if you have to. Make them lean hardcore. Make those players who aren't agile at all fall sometimes and slip. You see it all the time in real football. A player makes a cut and the defensive player just has too much momentum to cut back and they end up falling down. Momentum! Momentum can fit into physics. It covers basically what was stated before. Exaggerate and make players chop their feet to turn 45 degrees if thats what it wakes. I am tired of running past a guy in 2010 and having him do a 180 and maintain full speed and tackle me when in reality it would be a TD 10.10 times. Make players have weight. This alone will make the running game much more realistic. 2) Bocking. Blocking as it is now is horrible. There are three outcomes to a block in NCAA 2010. Either the blocker pancakes the defender, they hit them and block maybe for 1 second or they go for a waist block and they basically miss the guy completely. Blocking needs more interaction. I hate to beat a dead horse and bring 2k5 or 2k8 up. But look at there blocking. 2k8 may have only a select few animations in the block game, but they have realistic outcomes and look realistic and natural. i want to see my lineman try and get their pad level lower and drive the defense. If my lineman is undersized, have him either stay in place while blocking or have him pushed back. Same if the defensive player is smaller. Have him get pushed back in a realistic manner. I am tired of seeing stupid looking blocks and block sheds. It is really frustrating when I watch a replay after my sick run and when I see how the hole was sprung open, I instantly lose the joy and it turns to shame as I see that my offensive lineman don't even do the basics to blocking. Instead of completely fixing blocking logic first, get the blocking down and make it look right. Just watch 10 running plays and 10 passing plays from any college or NFL game and watch the lineman and just base the animations off that. It will look more natural and realistic and will help the game be more "sim" if we can get the blocking to act and look right. 3) Blocking logic. Again, 2k5 and 2k8 aren't perfect and their flaws show in the blocking game, but they still get it done better than Madden or NCAA. Blockers appear to actually think in those games. Instead of turning around to block a DT who has no chance in chasing my RB down. Those games actually have the lineman run with you and "look" around for defenders with an actual chance at disrupting the run. NCAA needs that badly. Its really really frustrating to have my FB cut, actually just turn as 2010 has no cuts as far as I have seen, in the middle of the field on a pitch and block the MLB who really had no chance instead of blocking the safety or corner who is coming right at my RB. The logic in blocking really makes running the ball not challenging, but frustratingly "hard" at time. EA needs to fix the animations and then get the logic down pretty good. Notice I do not say perfect, but rather pretty good. As of now, we have horrible logic. Pretty good would satisfy 90% of the community here. The other 10% are the nitpickers who are never satisfied. 4) This is a big thing to me and may be smaller to others, but make the ball its own thing. Right now the ball gets sucked into animations and when swatted or tipped it never has any real hang time. We see in real football all the time that most INT's are from tipped passes that hang in the air. The longest I have seen a ball not hit the ground in NCAA was 3 seconds and that was because the defensive player cycles through 4-5 animations trying tho catch the ball and it get warping around his body trying to get to his hands. Physics and momentum would stop the DB from doing so many moves in such a short time and it should help the ball be more of an actual object. Also, the ball goes through way too many body parts, and then I will see plays where it gets about a literal 2 feet from a hand and just falls straight down because it "hit" the hand. We need this fixed because tipped passes are huge in real football whether it be on Saturdays or Sundays. 5) Suction. This is HUGE! I am geting sick of suction. Often I will spot a defensive player out of position and try to throw the ball to my WR. Yet, 75% of the time the defensive player will run and then take 1-2 steps and cover around a good 10 yards because they are "warped" or "carried" to the ball. It looks like Angels in the Outfield, except this happens a lot more than the movie. Almost every other play it seems. It happens in the blocking, passing, running, etc. It happens in every aspect of the game and really really hurts. Again, I hate to, but 2k8 and 2k5 have a small window that triggers animations and it can get frustrating sometimes because you can basically run into a RB and not have a tackle trigger, but it is not as bad as having the RB and LB warp 2 yards each to trigger a tackle. It also effects deep ball passing as the DB will warp a yards or two when clearly beat to knock down what might just be a long TD pass. 7) Injuries. These are huge in football and need addressing. I am not mad over the types of injuries though elbow bursitis is only heard by me when I play this game.(heard by me? am I Shakespeare now?) B But its how injuries are caused. I just saved two pics of a game I was playing and the WR caught the ball, had his ankle twist around 180 degrees while his right leg would have easily been snapped had this been real life and his left leg was over his head just about and was most likely dislocated and possibly broke. I will upload the pics tomorrow, but I thought when it said the player was hurt, it would be serious like a broken ankle or leg. Well, I was wrong. EA came in and she said he had back spasms. Really? Back spasms when his leg was clearly broken at the shin and ankle. The injuries need to be determined from how the body parts are hit, how hard, how they twist, etc. Not because some formula says he should be injured for 2 plays. Thats all I have now. I think we can all agree these are very important. One thing I didn't make a paragraph or two over was animations. This seemed to broad, but animations as a whole need some help because they too make this game look like an arcade as it stands. Blitz actually has more sim looking animations. Another thing I hate is the mid air catch collisions. EA should just take them out unless they plan on making them work correctly and make them look great. Not good, these need to be great as they are on a thin line. Its stupid when a DB turns 180 degrees after swatting the ball down and they turn 180 degrees in mid air somehow and make a tackle on the WR who has no ball in his possession. Alright, lol, thats it. Please comment and leave feedback. Those aren't necessarily in my order of how and when they should be donw, but its pretty close. The first 3-4 are right, after that I typed as I thought. Thanks

[marktg30]

Neat-o!

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Cane21 Nice post, but everything u said was mentioned over and over again by many in this forum.

Unfortunately it was promised for 10 and it didn't happen. I could be wrong but I feel the engine is the handicap here , and once 11 drops we will see if what I'am stating is true or not.

Hopefully I'm 100% wrong so we can finally get a nice solid football game, and this forum could be filled with positive and fun telling threads

[Dianwei32]

Waaaay too long, how about a cliff notes version? I saw the words physics and blocking, I'm interested but don't want to read War and Peace.

[carnalnirvana]

nice post, also for this game to ever touch realism the devs need to program the offense and defense to react and think individually

11 players playing on their own intelligence, so if i run the ball to the right the db running with a wr on the left should not turn the same time the db on the right recognizes the play.....

right now defense is scripted to where what one player knows the entire defense knows thats why there is no cut back lanes and alot of warping off blocks because the guy engaged is reacting with the same animation as the dude unblocked and the ungaged lineman is reacting with the same intelligence as the other engaged linemen....

we need 22 players on field with their own AI and ratings to govern their actions, no ESP bond

[canes21]

Thanks guys. i apologize for the spelling mistakes and stuff, but it was late and I was typing fast like usual. But would you guys rather have my idea of exaggerated physics over what we have now? Thats probably the biggest thing for me and I feel it would fix a lot of the games problems. Do that and fix the suction and I will be a pleased custromer. But I'll expect the rest in the next title.

[maademperor]

nice list, I don't count on too much of it but maybe if enough voices are raised they will at least try...

[canes21]

Trying doesn't get much done around here. They tried to fix suction this past year. Did it even improve? I am sick of EA's bull crap. THey are the only game on the market and it is seriously frustrating to have to play a game that has no real football IQ. I hate how the players on man play the outsides when a slant is probably coming on 3rd and 3. Or when a man is in zone and he completely ignores it and backpedals away from the zone to allow a 1st down. i am sick of warping to passes, suction blocking, suction tackling, suction, suction, suction, I am sick of the lack of physics, the lack of momentum, the ball physics or lack of, the lack of blocking logic, no playcall logic, the CPU throwing to the middle of the field with no timeouts and 10 seconds left! I am sick of what is called an NFL sim, but actually simulates nothing about football. Hell, the football isn't even the right size!!!