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I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

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Old 11-16-2009, 02:06 PM   #17
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Can't you already adjust your blocking protection in Madden? Plus you can assign individual blockers to block and they are fairly good at picking up blocks, except on nano's when they can't shift fast enough from one side to another.

If you want to see blocking done right, and a real pocket you can actually maneuver in, then check out APF2K8. They got it right. You don't have to like the game, but at the very least you should be able to appreciate the pocket and how it works.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:25 PM   #18
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huskerwr38
Okay, did Ian and Co. really say that blocking assignments would be too hard to adjust on every play?

This is where people's lack of X's and O's on the football field really bite them. OL do not have a different blocking scheme or audible for every defensive front they see. In REAL football, lineman have a set of rules they follow to block different defensive fronts and to pick up blitzes. For instance, if the defense is in a 4 man front and the offense is running straight up the middle to the left. Lets say the the left guard is uncovered but the nose tackle is shaded over to his right, he has a set of rules for that particular situation. In this situation that guard will probably help double team the nose tackle. If the guard is completely uncovered and nobody shaded to his side, he will most likely go to the LB.

But do you see what I am getting at? In Madden the OL do not have any fundamental blocking rules whatsoever. It's kind of like zone blocking, you try and block who is ever closest to you. When the AI is messed up, thats when you get OL just completely missing blocks.
Interesting.

I coach. And guess what, it's a systemic difference. My kids have a different blocking scheme for every front they see. If you didn't, that's on YOUR COACH.

Zone blocking rules do work in a zone scheme, but in a strict man-power run scheme you BETTER know who you're supposed to hit or you're in trouble.

I have had this whole "in real football" conversation before. People like you seem to think that wherever you played that's the ONLY WAY it is ever done. I got news. There are more schemes, systems, and game plans out there than you can shake a stick at.

Five different coaches can all run the same scheme 100 different ways. Just because your team didn't do it that way doesn't mean no one does it that way.

The run blocking in this game is terrible. Using the cadence system is cheating a bit because in real life your players would know who to block without being told most of the time. But since we can't coach polygons for weeks and weeks on who to block, this is a STOP GAP SOLUTION to fix an otherwise untenable problem in the game.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:34 PM   #19
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdarez
Can't you already adjust your blocking protection in Madden? Plus you can assign individual blockers to block and they are fairly good at picking up blocks, except on nano's when they can't shift fast enough from one side to another.

If you want to see blocking done right, and a real pocket you can actually maneuver in, then check out APF2K8. They got it right. You don't have to like the game, but at the very least you should be able to appreciate the pocket and how it works.

Yes and no. This speaks to the point of "real football" and why the "it's not in real football" argument is so silly.

See, in real football the team practices together. The running backs know who is supposed to block whom, and where the holes should be, and what adjustments should be made to which fronts. In video football, none of this can happen.

Yes, in the current game you can adjust the blocking to a limited degree, but you still have no idea what your linemen are going to do on any given play because it's still random as to who will hit whom. It's all guess work, and it's very difficult to exploit weaknesses in a front or pursuit without having some idea of what the blockers will do. Even in practice mode, against the same defensive alignment, the blockers will block the same play 10 different ways because it's all random.

Running backs don't succeed out of pure luck. They have to be on the same page with their linemen and lead blockers. There is no way to coach everyone together and get the video game players to follow a set of blocking rules, so using the cadence to give out assignments on the spot is a fair solution in my opinion.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:41 PM   #20
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

I appreciate your ideas and not just criticizing the game to be doing so but honestly this sounds like something that would never make it into the game because 95% of folks who play it would view it as a huge hassle. Remember the vision cone? Granted it had a lot of issues but it did seek to emulate something football oriented using a more complex system. And nearly everyone hated it. Most hated it just because it made the game more difficult whereas alot of other folks who did appreciate what it was trying to do also hated it because they thought it should be done differently. So the feature was removed.

Madden will never be this hard core because it has to appeal to too large of a cross section of consumers. What you are speaking of is a PC type game, like Front Page football, that was geared toward a computer-type crowd as opposed to the "couch crowd". Sorry but that's just what my opinion is, despite thinking the idea has merit that EA could look at, I can tell you that due to past failed experiments of this nature they never will.
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:51 PM   #21
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODogg
I appreciate your ideas and not just criticizing the game to be doing so but honestly this sounds like something that would never make it into the game because 95% of folks who play it would view it as a huge hassle. Remember the vision cone? Granted it had a lot of issues but it did seek to emulate something football oriented using a more complex system. And nearly everyone hated it. Most hated it just because it made the game more difficult whereas alot of other folks who did appreciate what it was trying to do also hated it because they thought it should be done differently. So the feature was removed.

Madden will never be this hard core because it has to appeal to too large of a cross section of consumers. What you are speaking of is a PC type game, like Front Page football, that was geared toward a computer-type crowd as opposed to the "couch crowd". Sorry but that's just what my opinion is, despite thinking the idea has merit that EA could look at, I can tell you that due to past failed experiments of this nature they never will.
Really I'm talking about simplifying things. Having one system to do audibles, hot routes, blocking assignments and formation shifts instead of the current system which uses a completely different set of buttons to do all those things.

More importantly, because it does not effect your opponent like the Cone did, people who didn't like it could just turn it off.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:58 PM   #22
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Interesting.

I coach. And guess what, it's a systemic difference. My kids have a different blocking scheme for every front they see. If you didn't, that's on YOUR COACH.

Zone blocking rules do work in a zone scheme, but in a strict man-power run scheme you BETTER know who you're supposed to hit or you're in trouble.

I have had this whole "in real football" conversation before. People like you seem to think that wherever you played that's the ONLY WAY it is ever done. I got news. There are more schemes, systems, and game plans out there than you can shake a stick at.

Five different coaches can all run the same scheme 100 different ways. Just because your team didn't do it that way doesn't mean no one does it that way.

The run blocking in this game is terrible. Using the cadence system is cheating a bit because in real life your players would know who to block without being told most of the time. But since we can't coach polygons for weeks and weeks on who to block, this is a STOP GAP SOLUTION to fix an otherwise untenable problem in the game.
Thanks assumption, but no I don't seem to think EVERYONE does it that way. I was just giving an example and my main point was that most blocking schemes have rules they follow so they can adapt to different fronts and are able to block every possible scheme they come across. These rules can be implemented into Madden.

I've watched hours and hours of film of other schools (not just my own), so I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of different blocking systems and how they work.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:46 PM   #23
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

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Originally Posted by huskerwr38
Thanks assumption, but no I don't seem to think EVERYONE does it that way. I was just giving an example and my main point was that most blocking schemes have rules they follow so they can adapt to different fronts and are able to block every possible scheme they come across. These rules can be implemented into Madden.

I've watched hours and hours of film of other schools (not just my own), so I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of different blocking systems and how they work.
I'm going to skip past the pissing contest and get right to the important part of your post: implementing blocking rules.

How exactly do you plan to coach computer controlled players up? More importantly, how are you going to standardize those rules in such a way that the runner (you) knows what they are in any given situation? Keep in mind these rules will have to cover a myriad of different fronts, shifts and situations. If every run is just a guessing game, then we are right back where we started.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:57 PM   #24
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Re: I have a solution that will fix alot of problems: A pre-snap cadence system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
I'm going to skip past the pissing contest and get right to the important part of your post: implementing blocking rules.

How exactly do you plan to coach computer controlled players up? More importantly, how are you going to standardize those rules in such a way that the runner (you) knows what they are in any given situation? Keep in mind these rules will have to cover a myriad of different fronts, shifts and situations. If every run is just a guessing game, then we are right back where we started.
They already have "rules" implemented in the game. For instance, Ian has mentioned that players will do something depending on a circumstance like a DB in zone will cover a WR that comes into his area. They can implement the same "rules" for an offensive lineman.
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