Xbox live activity November 09

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brando70

How exactly is a game that sold nearly 4 million copies this year in trouble? Sales are down -- last year was 4.5 million according to EA -- but that's still a lot of copies sold. They've taken a market share hit and the profitability has surely decreased, but they're probably still making a decent profit on Madden, even with the license fees. Not really trying to defend Madden here, but people act like the series is on its last legs, and that's just not the case. If that downward trend continues for a couple years, yes, it might mean problems. But it's hard to gauge the significance of this year's decline given the economy. We probably won't know the real economic health of the franchise until Madden 11 comes out.

It's very simple. The amount of copies sold is down from the amount sold when they did not have to sink 100's of millions of dollars on an exclusive license. Who here thinks that EA's expectation was that they would sell less copies when they became the only game in town? That's absurd.

The expectation was that they would sell more copies and that that would justify the extra spent on the license. It has not come close to working out that way. You can look and say they sold 4mil copies, which I think that number is incorrect from what I have seen but what the hell, let's go with with even inflated numbers, and say they are making bank, but you have to look at the increased amount of money that they spend just to produce the game, that they did not have to spend before, when sales were much better. That is what I mean by trouble.

And you say that if that downward trend continues for a couple of years then it will be in trouble? Guess what? It's been in a downward trend since 2005 lol. Maybe you missed it.

For the umpteenth time I am not saying that EA is closing it's doors, just that this franchise is a disappointment from a financial standpoint. That is a fact. Stop putting your personal feelings of the game itself into the equation. Love it or hate it. I don't care. That's not the point of this topic. Only the bottom line.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

It's very simple. The amount of copies sold is down from the amount sold when they did not have to sink 100's of millions of dollars on an exclusive license. Who here thinks that EA's expectation was that they would sell less copies when they became the only game in town? That's absurd. The expectation was that they would sell more copies and that that would justify the extra spent on the license. It has not come close to working out that way. You can look and say they sold 4mil copies, which I think that number is incorrect from what I have seen but what the hell, let's go with with even inflated numbers, and say they are making bank, but you have to look at the increased amount of money that they spend just to produce the game, that they did not have to spend before, when sales were much better. That is what I mean by trouble. And you say that if that downward trend continues for a couple of years then it will be in trouble? Guess what? It's been in a downward trend since 2005 lol. Maybe you missed it. For the umpteenth time I am not saying that EA is closing it's doors, just that this franchise is a disappointment from a financial standpoint. That is a fact. Stop putting your personal feelings of the game itself into the equation. Love it or hate it. I don't care. That's not the point of this topic. Only the bottom line.

And just to add to your bottom line, because of the saturated gaming market and lower spending on software(5 months in a row below normal numbers), EA laid off 1500 employees. I think that get's lost under the radar.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

And just to add to your bottom line, because of the saturated gaming market and lower spending on software(5 months in a row below normal numbers), EA laid off 1500 employees. I think that get's lost under the radar.

A rose by any other name lol. Software is definitely down overall and the recession has to be considered in any discussion of sales, but neither of those factors has hurt MW 2, which is shattering records in the same economic climate that Madden is declining in. Not saying that those factors should not be considered, only that we have seen from MW 2 that it IS possible to do well in this economic climate if you have the right IP. Basically what this means is that Madden is not an IP that can overcome this climate. But then again, the downward trend has been going on for years, before the economic crisis and during a time when software sales were shooting through the roof, was it not?

Putting that out there as well.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

A rose by any other name lol. Software is definitely down overall and the recession has to be considered in any discussion of sales, but neither of those factors has hurt MW 2, which is shattering records in the same economic climate that Madden is declining in. Not saying that those factors should not be considered, only that we have seen from MW 2 that it IS possible to do well in this economic climate if you have the right IP. Basically what this means is that Madden is not an IP that can overcome this climate. But then again, the downward trend has been going on for years, before the economic crisis and during a time when software sales were shooting through the roof, was it not? Putting that out there as well.

Well sure, but I think we can both agree that anytime a business loses profits, they will cut back somewhere. And people need to look at EA as a business, instead of just a hobby. A smart business makes cutbacks during times when they lose profits. Nobody likes it when you slash employees. Heck, not getting off topic, but my wife's company said, we will cut your salary by 5% and you will take 10 days unpaid leave of vacation.

Let's see, job or no job.

As far as MW2, yeah, that game has a lot of playability. Our son has played that with his friends online for the last 9 days. People felt that when Batman came out that Batman would outsell Madden. I don't think Batman has the sustainability of MW2 or even Madden.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Actually,some people cheer whenever there is news that Madden is declining in sales. They feel that each year if Madden declines in sales, EA will give up the license in 2012.

I'll never understand why everyone who likes football games doesn't cheer for this. As a gamer there is no downside to this scenario is there?

Unfortunately, sales decline isn't the whole story. AFL packs, franchise cheats, and the "free unless you want a good team" ultimate team cards make up for the decline. Not to mention in game pop up ads for xbox guys.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Well sure, but I think we can both agree that anytime a business loses profits, they will cut back somewhere. And people need to look at EA as a business, instead of just a hobby. A smart business makes cutbacks during times when they lose profits. Nobody likes it when you slash employees. Heck, not getting off topic, but my wife's company said, we will cut your salary by 5% and you will take 10 days unpaid leave of vacation. Let's see, job or no job. As far as MW2, yeah, that game has a lot of playability. Our son has played that with his friends online for the last 9 days. People felt that when Batman came out that Batman would outsell Madden. I don't think Batman has the sustainability of MW2 or even Madden.

Who ever thought that Batman would outsell Madden needs a good shrink lol. However, I think that Batman did far exceed expectations and proved to be a very good selling game at a time when many Madden proponents were saying that no game could do well in this climate, when trying to excuse Madden's poor sales out of the gates.

On that subject. Many Madden proponents said that the economy was the sole reason for Madden's lackluster sales and that even MW 2 would not do as well as people think when it comes out as well. I knew it then, but it is a fact now, that those people were deeply deluded lol.

[alliance4g63]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Well if Madden makes as much of a leap from Madden 09 to Madden 10 for Madden 10 to Madden 11 then we should see sales go up if the public is after quality. Honestly though I don't think the quality of Madden is the issue, if it was then why would the crappier editions of Madden in the past sold as much as they did. I think it's because now there are so many other great games that people are just cutting back on these yearly games. I really don't see how EA can overcome that other than cutting the exclusive deal and cutting back costs on the game while trying to improve quality and hoping for the best.

If it is not the quality then what is the reason for loss in popularity and loss in sales? What else is there to blame, the tooth fairy?

The crappier editions sold just like the franchise has sold since its inception, the name JOHN MADDEN FOOTBALL. The only difference is that with the factual evidence presented, the consumer are losing interest in the game. That part should be apparent. The real question that needs to be answered is whether the consumer has lost interest in the genre.

I just saw a wiki article that says that Madden 05 sold 6.1m copies. I dont know the figure on 2k5 but I think it was about 2m or so. With that estimate, it seems there are atleast 8.1 million potential consumers. If Madden is selling 4-5 m copies now, that means there are atleast 3 million consumers that have either moved to other games or are currently sitting on the sidelines.

So to say that these numbers aren't alarming is either being naive or overly optomistic. Some people are capable of seeing the writing on the wall prior to the inevitable. Other people have to have the president come on national t.v. and tell them in clear black and white english what happened, when it happened and when it started to happen for them to believe.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I'll never understand why everyone who likes football games doesn't cheer for this. As a gamer there is no downside to this scenario is there? Unfortunately, sales decline isn't the whole story. AFL packs, franchise cheats, and the "free unless you want a good team" ultimate team cards make up for the decline. Not to mention in game pop up ads for xbox guys.

Those are definitely new avenues for EA to make money on the franchise aside from sales, but you have no idea whether this is enough to offset the decline in sales. Without numbers, it's just conjecture. And while we are speculating, my speculation is that these amounts do NOT offset the loss of money generated by copies moved.