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Old 11-23-2009, 11:04 AM   #33
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by gtmizundastood
I believe that madden needs to input a little more user response when using your QB along with the receiver being able to attempt different types of catches. Ex:You should be able to throw not a lob or a bullet. More of a touch pass and also a Manning like angled deep ball. Peyton does not seem to just lob it up. It like a missle with a slightly lower trajectory.
Ive also noticed this year that a lob is now a moon shot. They always create the most unrealistic arc I have ever seen on anything less than a hail mary. Worst of all, the amount of time it takes a QB to throw one, is no less that the time it takes for a bullet.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:13 AM   #34
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by RMoody
In Madden I feel like my QB and WR on NEVER on the same page, lack chemistry, have no timing...whatever you choose to call it. Regardless of what QB or WR I have, the Sage Rosenfels to Mike Furrey combo is just as effective as Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne in that perspective.
Do you find this not to be the case in other football games?

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Long over due in Madden is a "chemistry rating" between the QB and WR that gets stronger or weaker based on things like receptions, time spent with team, 3rd and 4th down completions, game winning or tying TD's....the list goes on.
I agree here. It would be nice to see some chemistry develop between the QB and WR's. But there's some question marks to such a suggestion:

1) What's the result of a QB and receiver with no chemistry? Wrong routes being run? It happens, but not a whole lot. I don't know if there's a way to simulate that without making the game cheesy. Most times when I hear that a QB & receiver aren't on the same page, it involves 'option routes' (where the coverage dictates the route). There aren't a vast amount of these in Madden.

2) Not a question, but you have to straddle the fence with this. For example, I loved the timing in 2K5 and I wanted a replica of that system in Madden. But someone countered my timing argument by saying that the timing was too on, if that makes sense. And I now sort of agree with that. B/c the timing was so on point, rarely ever did I have to keep a tight end or RB in to block b/c unless a defender came free, I was pretty much guaranteed to drop back and the receiver was going to be in place to make a play.

Suffice it to say that if the timing is too sharp, it becomes artificial and unreal. Madden still needs to improve in this area, but it's better this year than it has been in recent years. WR's aren't auto-adjusting to every thrown ball as they have in years past.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:31 AM   #35
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by rgiles36
Do you find this not to be the case in other football games?



I agree here. It would be nice to see some chemistry develop between the QB and WR's. But there's some question marks to such a suggestion:

1) What's the result of a QB and receiver with no chemistry? Wrong routes being run? It happens, but not a whole lot. I don't know if there's a way to simulate that without making the game cheesy. Most times when I hear that a QB & receiver aren't on the same page, it involves 'option routes' (where the coverage dictates the route). There aren't a vast amount of these in Madden.

2) Not a question, but you have to straddle the fence with this. For example, I loved the timing in 2K5 and I wanted a replica of that system in Madden. But someone countered my timing argument by saying that the timing was too on, if that makes sense. And I now sort of agree with that. B/c the timing was so on point, rarely ever did I have to keep a tight end or RB in to block b/c unless a defender came free, I was pretty much guaranteed to drop back and the receiver was going to be in place to make a play.

Suffice it to say that if the timing is too sharp, it becomes artificial and unreal. Madden still needs to improve in this area, but it's better this year than it has been in recent years. WR's aren't auto-adjusting to every thrown ball as they have in years past.
I don't have a problem with the timing being too on. The one thing 2k never had was great blitzing and Madden's blitzing isn't great either. If they have a lot of different looks, pre-snap movement and timed blitzes, force the user on offense to call protections then I wouldn't mind it being "too on."
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:09 PM   #36
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by rgiles36
I agree here. It would be nice to see some chemistry develop between the QB and WR's. But there's some question marks to such a suggestion:

1) What's the result of a QB and receiver with no chemistry? Wrong routes being run? It happens, but not a whole lot. I don't know if there's a way to simulate that without making the game cheesy. Most times when I hear that a QB & receiver aren't on the same page, it involves 'option routes' (where the coverage dictates the route). There aren't a vast amount of these in Madden.
This is my question about this idea as well.

Stuff like WR sitting down in a hole in the zone or not sometimes gets mentioned, but, again, how do you simulate this when the user is the one that the AI player has to have chemistry with? Randomly make the WR sit in the hole or not? When the ball is thrown to a WR that's sitting down, have him randomly run away from the ball (simulating that he didn't read that he needed to sit in the hole)?

Of course, first, Madden needs to have WR that are 1) aware that it's zone coverage, and 2) have them with the ability to stop their routes in a hole in the zone
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:12 PM   #37
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Ive also noticed this year that a lob is now a moon shot. They always create the most unrealistic arc I have ever seen on anything less than a hail mary. Worst of all, the amount of time it takes a QB to throw one, is no less that the time it takes for a bullet.
Agreed, I don't even throw lobs anymore unless the player is wide open and I want to make sure he has a high chance to catch it.

A "bullet" pass on a deep ball seems almost like that 'angled missile' trajectory as one poster described it.

Of course, somehow the AI is able to catch a hard 99 THP bullet with one hand but drops a fluttering lob.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #38
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by RMoody
Ive also noticed this year that a lob is now a moon shot. They always create the most unrealistic arc I have ever seen on anything less than a hail mary. Worst of all, the amount of time it takes a QB to throw one, is no less that the time it takes for a bullet.
You do own M10, correct? I don't mean to sound like an apologist, but I don't really see the moon-ball complaint this year. It was a VERY valid criticism in M09, and Tiburon put out a blog to illustrate how they corrected it. Additionally, there is a wind up on the longer throws.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:41 PM   #39
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by rgiles36
You do own M10, correct? I don't mean to sound like an apologist, but I don't really see the moon-ball complaint this year. It was a VERY valid criticism in M09, and Tiburon put out a blog to illustrate how they corrected it. Additionally, there is a wind up on the longer throws.
I agree, HOWEVER, there are still some ball trajectory issues with respect to the under coverage being able to warp and intercept on passes where guys are 8 to 10 yards behind them or to the side of them. I hate that the most because you cannot trust what you see in this game.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:50 PM   #40
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Re: Route Running in Madden 10

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Originally Posted by rgiles36
You do own M10, correct? I don't mean to sound like an apologist, but I don't really see the moon-ball complaint this year. It was a VERY valid criticism in M09, and Tiburon put out a blog to illustrate how they corrected it. Additionally, there is a wind up on the longer throws.
I still see moon balls all the time on the shorter passes. It's very difficult to throw the fade properly. I attribute it to faulty passing mechanics (i.e. not throwing to a point / based on a route). I can feel where I throw the ball in APF2K8, I can't do that at all even 100 games into Madden 10.
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