Route Running in Madden 10

[BlueNGold]

This is a great thread. I agree with almost all of these ideas. I hope Ian and co. read this and implement some of these ideas for next year.

I noticed grunt mentioned WR's sitting in soft spots of zone coverage. It would be nice if they tied that to a WR's awareness rating so that the older vets that have really good awareness will sit in those soft spots but the young rooks won't be as aware to do that.

Same goes for "scramble rules" when a QB is forced to run and WR's that are running deep routes come back to the QB and the WR's running short routes go deeper.

[RyanMoody21]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

You do own M10, correct? I don't mean to sound like an apologist, but I don't really see the moon-ball complaint this year. It was a VERY valid criticism in M09, and Tiburon put out a blog to illustrate how they corrected it. Additionally, there is a wind up on the longer throws.

Yea, clearly I own the game. Go throw a lob on a post about 30 yards down the field, it even comes off the QB's hand in an unrealistic fashion. It almost has to raise straight up off his hand to achieve the arch it gets.

This usually causes your WR to pull up on his route and allow the secondary to "get set". Im sure its great for rocket catching, but its terrible for realism, particularly when your not leading the WR at all.

Just as Valdarez said, running a proper fade is still way to difficult. I either see my WR turn around, stop....slide to the corner of the endzone or over throw him so bad he never makes an attempt to catch the ball.

As far as what should happen as a QB and WR develop, nothing bad should happen. I dont want to see wrong routes getting ran, or passes that are a waste of a down. Its all about the reward and the two getting better as a whole, not about starting out as if they arent pro players. Eventually it would be nice to see curls and posts ran to near perfection, such as throws to the outside shoulder the WR expects on curls. Also seeing perfect ball placement on post routes that get cut off by the sideline.

In APF, I know I can throw a ball before a cut is made and count on a WR to "go get it". In Madden, I just dont have that confidence based on so many issues I have experienced. In APF a ball that hits a WR before he makes a cut is a rarity, in Madden its almost standard.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I agree, HOWEVER, there are still some ball trajectory issues with respect to the under coverage being able to warp and intercept on passes where guys are 8 to 10 yards behind them or to the side of them. I hate that the most because you cannot trust what you see in this game.

That's valid...especially when trying to read the defense. But when I think of the moon ball, I think of how horrible it looked in M09 and it's nowhere near as bad this year. To me, it's non-existent and I don't play the game with blinders on (for any smart-arses out there). I would like to see more variety in trajectory though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I still see moon balls all the time on the shorter passes. It's very difficult to throw the fade properly. I attribute it to faulty passing mechanics (i.e. not throwing to a point / based on a route). I can feel where I throw the ball in APF2K8, I can't do that at all even 100 games into Madden 10.

The fade is almost non-existent in Madden. I can get lucky sometimes, but it's never pretty.

[SBAlki]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Yeah, I've noticed the game is inconsistent on catches when marking the spot of the ball. Sometimes it gives it right where you caught it, and other times it's where you were tackled went down even if you were being tackled / pushed back for the entire loss (i.e. not trying to move forward / make forward progress).

I have done some experimenting with the come back routes and forward progress. I run them with play action, and can usually tell if they are going to be hit soon after the catch. If the defender is close, I won't even push a button to have the receiver move, his momentum just carries him back on the catch and he is tackled in the middle of it. This method has solved the forward progress spotting problem for me.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by SBAlki

I have done some experimenting with the come back routes and forward progress. I run them with play action, and can usually tell if they are going to be hit soon after the catch. If the defender is close, I won't even push a button to have the receiver move, his momentum just carries him back on the catch and he is tackled in the middle of it. This method has solved the forward progress spotting problem for me.

Thanks for the tip, but I don't quite follow. Let me know if I'm explaining correctly what you just stated. If the receiver is coming back towards the line of scrimmage, you are saying you don't hit the stick to push him the other direction (towards the goalline) after the the receiver makes the catch? And that solves the spot of ball problem?

[SBAlki]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Thanks for the tip, but I don't quite follow. Let me know if I'm explaining correctly what you just stated. If the receiver is coming back towards the line of scrimmage, you are saying you don't hit the stick to push him the other direction (towards the goalline) after the the receiver makes the catch? And that solves the spot of ball problem?

Yeah, sorry for whatever reason I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what I am trying to explain. If it is 10 yard curl, if you throw it before they are stopped they will come back to the ball. If the defender is right on him, or I think he will tackle him in while he is in the animation for catching, I won't even attempt it. Basically, by not making any attempt to move, you are getting the forward progress spot.
In the NFL a player gets the forward progress from when he was hit. If he was to fight through the tackle and struggle back after hit he would not be awarded the first forward progress yardage. At least that is how I understand it.
I think the easiest way to sum up what I am saying is that if I don't think I am going to make anything, or need the spot right where I caught it, I won't press up on the right stick at all, or any other direction.
I hope I explained this coherently! For whatever reason, I am having a hard time explaining what I am thinking.... lol Maybe cause it's Monday

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by SBAlki

Yeah, sorry for whatever reason I am having a hard time figuring out exactly what I am trying to explain. If it is 10 yard curl, if you throw it before they are stopped they will come back to the ball. If the defender is right on him, or I think he will tackle him in while he is in the animation for catching, I won't even attempt it. Basically, by not making any attempt to move, you are getting the forward progress spot. In the NFL a player gets the forward progress from when he was hit. If he was to fight through the tackle and struggle back after hit he would not be awarded the first forward progress yardage. At least that is how I understand it. I think the easiest way to sum up what I am saying is that if I don't think I am going to make anything, or need the spot right where I caught it, I won't press up on the right stick at all, or any other direction. I hope I explained this coherently! For whatever reason, I am having a hard time explaining what I am thinking.... lol Maybe cause it's Monday

That makes sense, sounds like the AI must not be fighting forward then after the catch, where as I usually switch to manually make the catch and then immediately run side ways or up field, even if I'm in the grasp. Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely give this a try and see if it helps.

I do believe though if a player is pushed back not of his on volition, then the ball is supposed to be marked at the point of his last forward progress. I think this is probably a bug. Football gurus pleasse feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

[SBAlki]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

That makes sense, sounds like the AI must not be fighting forward then after the catch, where as I usually switch to manually make the catch and then immediately run side ways or up field, even if I'm in the grasp. Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely give this a try and see if it helps. I do believe though if a player is pushed back not of his on volition, then the ball is supposed to be marked at the point of his last forward progress. I think this is probably a bug. Football gurus pleasse feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

The last paragraph there is what I was trying to say! If the player was to get pushed back he would get the spot where he was pushed back. But the way I understand it is that if he fought out of the push back, then made an attempt forward again, the spot changes.