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Madden needs even more streched ratings.

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Old 11-30-2009, 09:52 PM   #49
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Re: Madden needs even more streched ratings.

I agree they should do it like NBA 2k10
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:23 PM   #50
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Re: Madden needs even more streched ratings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twl221
I think they did a great job in this last year, but they need more. The main new attribute being explosiveness. For example CJ and Cribbs would have 99, where as guys like Jamal Lewis would have a significantly lower rating. Joshua Cribbs can't be rated high 60's in madden when he is the best non-lineman on the Browns. Anymore you think they need?

OMG please do not stretch the ratings. I feel they need to scale back on them. There should be specific ratings for specific positions.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:55 PM   #51
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Re: Madden needs even more streched ratings.

The last thing this game needs is more ratings.

What the game needs, is for more then 3 or 4 ratings, to actually matter.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:56 PM   #52
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Re: Madden needs even more streched ratings.

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Originally Posted by Boregard
EA has yet to realize that the position specific attributes are where they need to concentrate the effort to separate players.

IE - 2 WRs with 99 spd 99 acc and 99 agi could be completely different players if WR A had 99 Route Run and player B had 80 route run - that should be a huge and very noticeable difference, but currently the difference is very small (I know I tested this)!

Route running should be an indicator of how sharp a guy cuts within his AGI/ACC ratings - so a WR with 90 ACC 90 AGI and 99 route run would cut based on the max of his ACC/AGI ratings - conversely a WR with 99 ACC/AGI with an 80 Route run would cut during his routes at about %80 of his ACC/AGI numbers thus making him less effective.

RR (route run) should also impact the correctness of depth of routes - say the play calls for a 5 yd out, but the 80 RR WR runs it at 7 yds, which screws the timing of the route and gets your QB sacked or you throw it anticipating 5 yds and the DB picks it cuz your WR failed to run the route at the correct depth!

RR should also affect how closely the DBs can anticipate the route, 99 ManCov CBs should be rare but have excellent ability to recognize routes (notice I did not say play recognition, but route recognition) and if you show that DB the same route multiple times he is gonna shut it down (no matter if the actual play is different). When matched up against 99 RR WRs they should "sell" something else - as in a WR running a Post would head fake towards the corner, or when running an out or hitch he should "sell" the fly route.

I don't know how to figure the computations the game needs to make, but 99 RR vs. 99 ManCov should be an interesting battle - of course if you have a 99 RR WR with 99 SPD vs a 99 RR DB with 89 SPD the DB may jump the route or be in perfect position at the cut point, but if given time the WR will seperate due to the speed advantage, meaning you will have to "roll" safety help to that DB, or dbl team the WR or whatever!

These "position specific" attributes are where EA needs to expand or spread out how the numbers affect the game play!!!

I agree.

The laundry list of pedestrian WRs with speed who cant get open, is long.


In Madden though, put Fabian Washington at WR, and marvel at the uncoverable god, that you have.
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:30 PM   #53
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Re: Madden needs even more streched ratings.

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Originally Posted by Tito78
You're seriously nit picking now. I doubt take two tried to determine which Dlineman was worse at carrying the football. If they had ratings for that, they all probably got the same rating. As far as defensive lineman are concerned, that's not a rating in the true sense because ratings are meant to make one player superior or inferior to another.
You missed the main point of my post. My point was if you remove an attribute from the sight of anyone else how would we know what that player could do in a given situation. I listed several examples of when players at different positions use offensive or defensive abilities. 90% of the time players will only use one skill set but there are some coaches and some plays that force them to use there skills. Why hide them when they have an obvious need to be in the open.

The other point, was that the 2k8 system wouldnt allow for any of that to happen simply because anyone who didnt have elite-bad skills would automatically get a bad ability. That means players from the wrong position would be able to perform just like a bad player when IRL they probably wouldnt be able to perform at all(look at the Oline comparison to little girls...) Even if they were to give say Deanglo Hall his moves and abilities they would still have to give him elite which leads back to my first point of you cant hide a rating just because 90% of the time the player doesnt use it.

Maybe I want to draft a CB for his hands and running ability over his coverage skills? Maybe I have a DE who lines up at TE every now and then? Maybe I will drop my Dline into coverage a lot? Maybe I am short on defense and will use a WR who has played defense before? Maybe I will be like the patriots and use players who have talent? We should be able to see these things so the person who is playing the game gets to play it the way they think is best.

2k8 only worked because they werent using the NFL and they didnt have a franchise. This took out all the issues that their system would have caused. I have listed three of them already(moving players around on the depth charts, properly representing players of the NFL, and progression)(this also goes back to saying that madden still struggles to properly represent the NFL itself under the current system and I have listed already things it could do to better itself)

Another issue with franchise is also the fact of having to bring logic to the computer to try and sign players to deals that would logically fit to the amount of talent to the amount of money paid. By switching to a 2k8 system they would have to create a whole new logic from scratch. I dont know if you know but they already have an amazing system built that they have yet to implement. Check out Head Coach 09 for further details but the depth of that system already designed is amazing.

If their stats and abilities are based on being given a title, then progression gets murky. A player can be an explosive juker but may not be able to perform an advanced back juke or stutter step IRL. By simply giving a player access to all moves because he got better at it makes players to generic and repeating. It would be common place to see high end elusive backs all running the same with similar animations. Wouldnt it be better if they had flaws/lesser talent in some of their juke moves?

My thread about mixing 2k, head coach, and madden explained that and is a good marriage for each system. It would create diversity among players. This is desperately needed in madden where Reggie Bush and Adrian Peterson look exactly the same doing juke/spin moves when IRL they have different skills from each other.

The numbers are in madden to simply the game. Someone looks and sees their player has a 99 throw power they know they can throw the ball deep. Someone sees a player has a 95 throw power they know the other guy has a stronger arm and can throw slightly further. Plain and simple.

You are right in the fact that judging someones talent is all guesswork and we really dont know. Personally, I HAVE to know exactly how much better is player A over player B because it isnt RL and it is a video game. By giving people just titles that open new animations(and upgrade abilities) this only allows me to say ok I have a basic juke guy and another basic juke guy....who is younger...ok good bye old guy. I personally would keep an older player if they had the same stats except for 4 points more in throw power. But under the 2k8 system I wouldnt know that at all and would just let the older player go.

On paper Madden's system is more complex and more developed then 2k8. In practice, Madden's game play leaves much to be desired to properly represent the ratings a person has compared to 2k8. If madden had players unlock animations at different numbers(70, 80, 90, 99) that were exactly alike to 2k8 we wouldnt even be having this discussion. We would be saying why is 2k8 so dumbed down compared to madden. What I suggest is we build onto the current system instead of tearing it down and installing a lesser system in its place.

Last edited by Glorious Arc; 11-30-2009 at 11:45 PM.
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