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99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

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Old 11-30-2009, 07:10 PM   #17
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetique
Actually, it is true.

Put the threshold on 99 and you'll notice that the players pretty much all run the same speed, with small differences due to acceleration and height.

Like I said, the threshold is just that, a threshold. At the point at which a players speed crosses the threshold, it is scaled, to the threshold. Since there is only a minimum speed and not a maximum speed threshold, it only speeds players up, it does not slow them down.
you're so completely wrong... of course players play at nearly the same speed at 99 threshold, because that is the maximum! just like all WR's catch nearly as good at 99 catching, or QB's are all deadly accurate at 99 QB accuracy

however, the difference between 80 and 90 speed guys at for example a 40 threshold is greater than the difference at a 60 threshold...

the threshold will expand the gap between EVERY speed rating the lower it goes... just as it will minimize the gap between EVERY speed rating the higher it goes
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:55 PM   #18
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

I don't know why this thread is getting so heated!?!

The deal is quite frankly that we, the forum community, complained and complained about people abusing speed and EA over reacted by making speed less effective in a straight line, they really killed the flow of the game with any type of move nearly stopping your ball carrier and they have yet to realize that the position specific attributes are where they need to concentrate the effort to separate players.

IE - 2 WRs with 99 spd 99 acc and 99 agi could be completely different players if WR A had 99 Route Run and player B had 80 route run - that should be a huge and very noticeable difference, but currently the difference is very small (I know I tested this)!

Route running should be an indicator of how sharp a guy cuts within his AGI/ACC ratings - so a WR with 90 ACC 90 AGI and 99 route run would cut based on the max of his ACC/AGI ratings - conversely a WR with 99 ACC/AGI with an 80 Route run would cut during his routes at about %80 of his ACC/AGI numbers thus making him less effective.

RR (route run) should also impact the correctness of depth of routes - say the play calls for a 5 yd out, but the 80 RR WR runs it at 7 yds, which screws the timing of the route and gets your QB sacked or you throw it anticipating 5 yds and the DB picks it cuz your WR failed to run the route at the correct depth!

RR should also affect how closely the DBs can anticipate the route, 99 ManCov CBs should be rare but have excellent ability to recognize routes (notice I did not say play recognition, but route recognition) and if you show that DB the same route multiple times he is gonna shut it down (no matter if the actual play is different). When matched up against 99 RR WRs they should "sell" something else - as in a WR running a Post would head fake towards the corner, or when running an out or hitch he should "sell" the fly route.

I don't know how to figure the computations the game needs to make, but 99 RR vs. 99 ManCov should be an interesting battle - of course if you have a 99 RR WR with 99 SPD vs a 99 RR DB with 89 SPD the DB may jump the route or be in perfect position at the cut point, but if given time the WR will seperate due to the speed advantage, meaning you will have to "roll" safety help to that DB, or dbl team the WR or whatever!

These "position specific" attributes are where EA needs to expand or spread out how the numbers affect the game play!!!
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:33 PM   #19
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill2451
you're so completely wrong... of course players play at nearly the same speed at 99 threshold, because that is the maximum! just like all WR's catch nearly as good at 99 catching, or QB's are all deadly accurate at 99 QB accuracy

however, the difference between 80 and 90 speed guys at for example a 40 threshold is greater than the difference at a 60 threshold...

the threshold will expand the gap between EVERY speed rating the lower it goes... just as it will minimize the gap between EVERY speed rating the higher it goes
Lol... fine, you win.

For me and my broken game where I actually tested my comments, at a threshold of 99, the players are the same speed. Stamina still seems to play a factor (or it could be awareness/play recog... hard to tell really), as well as height and acceleration, but otherwise, they're the same speed.

My game's broken though. Sorry for my incorrect comments folks!

Last edited by Poetique; 11-30-2009 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:00 PM   #20
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetique
Lol... fine, you win.

For me and my broken game where I actually tested my comments, at a threshold of 99, the players are the same speed. Stamina still seems to play a factor (or it could be awareness/play recog... hard to tell really), as well as height and acceleration, but otherwise, they're the same speed.

My game's broken though. Sorry for my incorrect comments folks!
yes, because I must be making stuff up, seeing as i've never tested a thing in madden (please dont read the breaking down sliders thread in the sliders section)

you put the threshold at 99 and then take an O-lineman and a WR and make them run straight down the field and tell me the WR doesnt outrun the lineman (albiet its much closer than it should be, which is why a 99 threshold is unrealistic)

or how about, put the threshold at 50 (where it shouldnt effect anyone whos speed is above 50 according to you) and have a guy with 80 speed and a guy with 95 speed run straight down the field at the same time... then move the threshold to 0 and have them do it again... then come back and tell me there was no difference between the two tests
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:35 PM   #21
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill2451
yes, because I must be making stuff up, seeing as i've never tested a thing in madden (please dont read the breaking down sliders thread in the sliders section)

you put the threshold at 99 and then take an O-lineman and a WR and make them run straight down the field and tell me the WR doesnt outrun the lineman (albiet its much closer than it should be, which is why a 99 threshold is unrealistic)

or how about, put the threshold at 50 (where it shouldnt effect anyone whos speed is above 50 according to you) and have a guy with 80 speed and a guy with 95 speed run straight down the field at the same time... then move the threshold to 0 and have them do it again... then come back and tell me there was no difference between the two tests
I've read the thread, I've done the tests, and I've already explained what my obviously broken game has shown me. Good grief kid give it a rest already. Outside of you, largely, no one cares that much.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:25 PM   #22
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

The height of the player effects speed. Steve Smith and Randy Moss have the same speed rating. Randy Moss Burns his CB's and Steve Smith can barely do it.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:57 PM   #23
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boregard
Route running should be an indicator of how sharp a guy cuts within his AGI/ACC ratings - so a WR with 90 ACC 90 AGI and 99 route run would cut based on the max of his ACC/AGI ratings - conversely a WR with 99 ACC/AGI with an 80 Route run would cut during his routes at about %80 of his ACC/AGI numbers thus making him less effective.

RR (route run) should also impact the correctness of depth of routes - say the play calls for a 5 yd out, but the 80 RR WR runs it at 7 yds, which screws the timing of the route and gets your QB sacked or you throw it anticipating 5 yds and the DB picks it cuz your WR failed to run the route at the correct depth!

RR should also affect how closely the DBs can anticipate the route, 99 ManCov CBs should be rare but have excellent ability to recognize routes (notice I did not say play recognition, but route recognition) and if you show that DB the same route multiple times he is gonna shut it down (no matter if the actual play is different). When matched up against 99 RR WRs they should "sell" something else - as in a WR running a Post would head fake towards the corner, or when running an out or hitch he should "sell" the fly route.

Geez, this makes too much sense

Shame on you, making this much sense

But yeah, that would be great. RTE as a modifier to ACC when changing direction on pass routes and RTE allowing the WR to fake/sell defenders, run crisp cuts at the proper depth? Sign me up.

And yeah, I agree - EA needs to stop fighting cheese/exploits with even cheesier stuff to counter the earlier cheese. Stop making it a battle of player cheese vs EA cheese and have the game do more stuff like this.

Last edited by KBLover; 12-01-2009 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:09 PM   #24
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Re: 99 SPD not fast to me.. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetique
Like I said, the threshold is just that, a threshold. At the point at which a players speed crosses the threshold, it is scaled, to the threshold. Since there is only a minimum speed and not a maximum speed threshold, it only speeds players up, it does not slow them down.
That depends on your frame of reference. According to Megatron's tests:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2040316352


If 50 (the default) is your frame of reference then 0 slows down slower guys.

Now if you're viewing it from 0, then yeah, it speeds the slower guys up and never slows anyone down.


At 0 threshold, 54 SPD vs 93 SPD (the min and max he tested) was a time difference of 6.7 vs 4.3

At 50 threshold, the time difference 5.4 vs 4.3

At 100 threshold, the time difference 4.7 vs 4.3


So guys didn't run at the same speed, but at 100, the difference is so small that over short distances there will not be much separation in how much ground was covered. The "split second differences" start blurring on the field. A DT and a DB might blitz home at the same time (short distance) if they both were free runners instead of at 50 threshold, the DT blitzing giving the QB a half-second more to throw/step up in the pocket/have a blocker pick up the blitzer, and at 0 the QB might have a full second (or more!) more if it was the DT vs the DB.

I think that's why defense plays better on higher thresholds. The front 7 almost like having 7 jumbo sized DBs with how they can flow.

But the speeds aren't exactly the same, but as far as the distances involved in gameplay, there's not enough difference to really pick out the speed ratings.

Last edited by KBLover; 12-01-2009 at 09:12 PM.
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