Debugging Madden's Defensive Run Coverage Pathing

[Valdarez]

I've been playing a couple of games tonight, working on the NFL Simulation Sliders, and I've broken several really big runs in the process. After reviewing the plays, it was clear the problem with the run coverage. The pathing is wrong.

Ok, we have probably all complained about pathing at one point or another right? But what about the pathing is wrong? The defensive player is heading right towards the player, so surely it's correct, right?

Wrong!

I'm not a football player, or a football guru, but I know how I play defense when I'm playing online against other players, when covering the run, I don't play the runner, I play the Lanes.

After watching the replays it became clear that the defensive players have absolutely no concept of the lanes available to the runner. Lets take an example (sorry, no video, packing up to head out for Christmas, so too lazy to make one tonight).

Example #1 - No Lanes, Just Following the HB
On this particular run play, Chris Johnson is running to the right with a FB lead blocker. The OLB to the right side, the SS, and the CB to the right, all see him running, and they all start heading the direction that will lead to a collision with the HB.

I turn straight up for a second so I can pull the OLB into the FB, which works perfectly. Since the OLB movement is tracking my HB movement to the pixel, the OLB runs square into my FB and is effectively blocked. Now, not only did the OLB react the quick turn straight up by the HB, but the SS, and the CB reacted as well.

Seeing me turn straight upfield, the SS turned straight down to go towards Chris Johnson head on, putting the SS to the left of the blocked OLB.

Seeing me turn straight upfield (90 degree angle), the CB reacted as well, turn straight left (180 degree angle) towards the middle, effectively putting the CB above the blocked OLB.

As I near the FB/OLB who are engaged in the block, I turn to the right quickly.

Realize the SS is to the left, he tries to turn right, but runs into the OLB/FB. The CB is on top, and turns down and runs into the OLB/FB. I effectively took out the OLB, the SS, and the CB, simply by using my FB and using the bad pathing in the game.

From there, Chris Johnson took it 75 yards to the house as the OLB, SS, and CB were all left in the dust, leaving the FS on the far side of the field as the closest player and he was a good 10 to 15 yards off. Easy 7 for CJ, yet not a TD Val enjoyed.

Example #2 - Using Lanes
When the HB is behind the line of scrimmage, or rather, running directly at the defensive player, then the field needs to be broken down into 'Lanes' that are delineated by possible blockers. The defensive players will each take a lane, with an extra player coming over to handle the necessary blocker.

In the example from #1, here's what should have happened.

The OLB, SS, and FS all react to Chris Johnson running to the right and there is one blocker in play. Thus there is a right lane (call it Lane 1), and a left lane (call it Lane 2), and 1 blocker the OLB (blocker A).

Since is the closest player to the HB, the OLB will take the patch directly towards the HB, and will more than likely engage the OLB in the process.

The SS will run down covering Lane 2, and will only transition over to Lane 1, once the HB has committed to Lane 2.

Conversely, since the CB is farthest to the right, he will stay over and on top of the OLB / FB block and slowly close the gap between himself and the HB on Lane 2, but he will never cross the blocker delineation of the Lanes, and will only transition over to Lane 2 if the HB has committed to Lane 2.

Once the HB commits to a Lane (either 1, or 2), then the defensive player responsible for the lane will engage in a direct path towards the HB in order to attempt the tackle.

Defensive Control of Running Lanes
Controlling the running lanes is key to controlling where the HB is allowed to run, and who will eventually tackle him, yet I don't see any concept of lanes or defensive control of the lanes in Madden 10. Many times the key to stopping the running game isn't converging on the HB, but limiting the HB to the running lanes that give up the shortest yards possible.

Programming the Running Lanes
There should already be some logic in the game for lanes on kickoff returns. Basically you need to have default segmentation of the field when there are no blockers, and then on the fly adjustments when blockers come into play. As the distance between the defensive players and the runner / blockers converge the lanes will shrink and the defenders will share coverage of a single lange and/or making the tackle. Ideally there should never be an open lane in a 3 vs 1 blocker scenario as described in Example #1 above.

Other ideas / thoughts to help fix the pathing problem on defensive run coverage?

[rooney8]

Couldn't read all that sorry. Basically your saying the defense all runs at the rb not where the rb is going.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by rooney8

Couldn't read all that sorry. Basically your saying the defense all runs at the rb not where the rb is going.

Verbosity kills.

Defenders run to the point they will collide with the ball carrier, regardless of what may, or may not, be in the way. They only adjust to what's in their path at the point of contact with the obstacle (such as the OLB / FB example above), which results in defenders constantly being out of position.

Defenders need to recognize the blockers as separators for the lanes, and then cover the lanes accordingly.

[canes21]

I see what you are saying and agree 100%. The reason we see teams like the Vikings dominate on defense and don't give up many rushing yards is because each player follows his assignment and fills there gap and forces the RB to try and make a play and they usually run into another defender instead.

I watched a replay a while back when I was playing with my Redskins and my OLB Rocky McIntosh was running right at the RB in his gap, then turned and did a 180 and ran around the defense to the other side of the field. LB's don't do that. They continue to run down the gap. Had he kept running, I am 90% sure he would have chased the RB down before he got to the outside.

[sleepyeagle]

I've noticed this as well. I started seeing it in kickoff returns, and I can now return about half of the kicks I receive for a touchdown on All-Pro (as long as I have a fast, agile return man). All it takes is looking a head a little bit, and baiting the other team into your blockers.

It's like a magnetic pull, without any logic or idea of what they "should" actually be doing.

It is, however, a video game. I expect to find things like that, but when I'm playing against friends I make it a point not to exploit them. Especially since most people I know aren't very Madden savvy.

[gtmizundastood]

Well I played football(Defensive Tackle, Wingate University) and you are right. But it's not just the path. The need to assign a gap.(Ex:A Gap, B Gap, etc.) Gap control is what the running game is about. They also need to add force assignments to players that are playing the outside. This is term meaning that the player is to maintain outside positioning in order to force the run inside. THey need to change the playcalling on defense. What the DLine, LB's, and DB's do on a particular play is determined by three different phrase at least in a play call. 2k kind of had this right with their play calling. You could call DLine stunts independently. Madden predetermines this for you. Most plays should not force the defensive line to move in any direction. This should be based upon an assigned gap.

[KBLover]

Gap football play doesn't exist in Madden, I agree Valdarez. The only way it gives the illusion is if there's a gap for the LB to run at the ball carrier or a blitz creates a free runner. But then, it's just running right at the ball carrier unblocked, not that he found the gap in the protection/blocking and attacked it.

CPU HB have a hard time finding daylight as well. Too often I see the AI HB running up the back of an engaged blocker and not cut off his hip to the running lane he opened up.

Zone blocking struggles for the same reason, imo, especially for the CPU HB - as they don't find the cutback lanes fast enough. CPU HB are not aggressive about turning upfield on outside runs either. Once I saw the AI just stay parallel to the LOS, even though he had PLENTY of room to turn up field and pick up yards. Instead, he did it late and the LBs, CB, and S on that side had flowed to him and stopped the play for less than it should have been.

I think what would help run defense is making LBs smarter about it. Right now, run defense is DL oriented (i.e. they get the tackles). Even downfield, I see Ngata or Harris running down the ball carrier. What were the LBs doing?

LBs need to see gaps and just attack them if they detect run (AWR and PRC). DL job on most runs should be to hold the LOS to prevent run lanes from developing fully. Make the HB search for a place to go by closing the point of attack, then the LBs flow through any open space to get the ball carrier.

OLBs should stay outside unless the ball carrier is heading inside. Too often, I see my OLBs coming in on outside runs. They don't read and then react. They just go and then get caught in the wash and the outside is wide open.

Gap control defense and reading and reacting on runs would do a lot to make run defense better and more realistic, imo.

Of course, once that happens, run blocking will have to become smarter and run plays better designed.

[lasthour]

Val you are 100 percent correct. This is one of the examples of the things that are not right with Madden. This is a perfect example of Madden playing a good game of "Madden Football", but does not represent the real gridiron.

Good observation Val.