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Run blocking still needs work

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Old 12-30-2009, 01:24 PM   #17
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Re: Run blocking still needs work

I don't disagree that there are issues with other odd sets (especially with show blitz), but I think the 1-5-5 is the worst this year. The fact that obvious, crucial defenders right where the play is headed can be completely invisible to the blockers is a huge issue.

I think the OL logic was probably developed with simpler defenses in mind (4-3 and 3-4), and within that framework I think the OL performs very well in Madden 10. But start placing defenders in odd spots, and especially with the 1-5-5 having only one guy at the line, and the OL falls apart pretty easily (especially when you shift the LBs pre-snap).

I think the dev team needs to start testing all the basic run plays against all the odd defensive sets (including every pre-snap option: show blitz, shift backers/line) and see where it is that the blocking logic is struggling. I don't claim to know anything about the coding, but I can't imagine it would be a terribly difficult fix once the specific issues are pinpointed.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:24 PM   #18
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Re: Run blocking still needs work

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
While I understand the OL shouldn't be so easily confused, isn't that part of why those formations were developed in real life? The 1-5-5 disguises who the rushers will be - there's a bunch of guys standing up - any number of them could be blitzing or could be in coverage.

Same for the 3-3-5, who's the 4th rusher? Where will he be coming from? Who's dropping in coverage?

The show blitz confusion sounds a lot like what aggressive defenses do in real life to confuse the QB's reads and the protection assignments. Another way to disguise the 4th/5th rusher - they ALL look like they are coming - so who is and who isn't?

I wouldn't want THOSE nuances out of Madden any more than I want the OL to be confused on an dog and pony trick that looks anything different than a 4-3 set.
That's for the pass. But the OL gets confused in the run game. That's the bigger problem. You don't see NFL teams lining up in 1-5-5 and Nickel 3-3-5 on run downs and against 21, or 22 personnel. But in this game you can and be very successful with it.

Secondly, the scenario you present is real life. Namely, who are going to be the pass rushers. In this game the line already knows who the rushers are. Psychic. But in the case of the 1-5-5 they do not block it unless you slide protect and the problem with that is you leave the backside for a back to block and most backs get plowed over tecmo bowl style as if they have no weight. I saw this just yesterday. Lemar Woodley came off the back side and pancaked Ray Rice and ran straight to Flacco for the sack. I was like What? REALLY? Why didn't Rice try to take out his legs or something? They just let him run him slap over as if Rice was a feather. What was worse, on a middle blitz James Farrior pancacked and plowed over LeRon McClain. A 265 lb FB getting plowed over as if he was only 60 lbs when wet and wearing boots.

Last edited by LBzrule; 12-30-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:32 PM   #19
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Re: Run blocking still needs work

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
While I understand the OL shouldn't be so easily confused, isn't that part of why those formations were developed in real life? The 1-5-5 disguises who the rushers will be - there's a bunch of guys standing up - any number of them could be blitzing or could be in coverage.

Same for the 3-3-5, who's the 4th rusher? Where will he be coming from? Who's dropping in coverage?

The show blitz confusion sounds a lot like what aggressive defenses do in real life to confuse the QB's reads and the protection assignments. Another way to disguise the 4th/5th rusher - they ALL look like they are coming - so who is and who isn't?

I wouldn't want THOSE nuances out of Madden any more than I want the OL to be confused on an dog and pony trick that looks anything different than a 4-3 set.
I understand what you're getting at, and I agree. They can't overcompensate and end up making the offensive line into infallible robots who know exactly where the rush is and put themselves into perfect position every time. Awareness and other ratings should matter, and certain blitzes should confuse certain linemen, and blocks should be missed at times.

But, there's nothing confusing happening in the second video I posted. And no lineman on an NFL roster would ignore the linebackers in that play. It's a simple, straight-ahead running play and the linebackers are positioned directly in front of the G and T. It's all pretty straight forward and should be able to pick up 4-5 yards at the very least.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:40 PM   #20
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Re: Run blocking still needs work

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Secondly, the scenario you present is real life. Namely, who are going to be the pass rushers. In this game the line already knows who the rushers are. Psychic.
That should change - we want nuances in the game, so that shouldn't be. They should read who's coming when they come or maybe let the high AWR guys be psychic to simulate that the read a key or such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
But in the case of the 1-5-5 they do not block it unless you slide protect and the problem with that is you leave the backside for a back to block and most backs get plowed over tecmo bowl style as if they have no weight. I saw this just yesterday. Lemar Woodley came off the back side and pancaked Ray Rice and ran straight to Flacco for the sack. I was like What? REALLY? Why didn't Rice try to take out his legs or something? They just let him run him slap over as if Rice was a feather. What was worse, on a middle blitz James Farrior pancacked and plowed over LeRon McClain. A 265 lb FB getting plowed over as if he was only 60 lbs when wet and wearing boots.

Yeah, I've seen that happen too - of course we all know weight/momentum need to badly be included in the engine, which would also help blocking. That and of course the player AI needs to be improved (like you mention with Rice).

That McClain scenario - that's crazy.

It's like when Foxworth can get out of the grasp of a LG that's got him fully engaged and lay out AP. That probably would not happen often in real life - the LG would run over, or at least be able to hold him and drive him back, and if he somehow got free - I'd think AP would be the one laying out a DB if he has any head of steam going.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:46 PM   #21
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Re: Run blocking still needs work

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover
That should change - we want nuances in the game, so that shouldn't be. They should read who's coming when they come or maybe let the high AWR guys be psychic to simulate that the read a key or such.





Yeah, I've seen that happen too - of course we all know weight/momentum need to badly be included in the engine, which would also help blocking. That and of course the player AI needs to be improved (like you mention with Rice).

That McClain scenario - that's crazy.

It's like when Foxworth can get out of the grasp of a LG that's got him fully engaged and lay out AP. That probably would not happen often in real life - the LG would run over, or at least be able to hold him and drive him back, and if he somehow got free - I'd think AP would be the one laying out a DB if he has any head of steam going.
LOL yeah Foxworth in Real life would go looking for a WR and beg the WR to block him if he knew that Guard was coming. Either that or he would just hit the ground and pray that he isn't stepped on too badly. But in here I am tired of the touch blocking by players who lay dudes out. I literally saw McClain on a run play just touch Randall Gay. Gay stumbled a little and made the tackle. I was like that is a WEAK block on a CB.
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