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Why Madden isn't recreating football as best it can (and how they can fix things)

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Old 01-04-2010, 01:27 PM   #9
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Re: Why Madden isn't recreating football as best it can (and how they can fix things)

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Originally Posted by mmorg
This is what difficulty levels should be for.

Rookie should have it setup where you just select what type of play you want. On offense you can select; Run, Pass, FG, Punt.

Veteran should be a little more advanced, kind of like the select by Play Type screen.

All-Pro should be like it is now.

All-Madden should be an ultimate NFL simulation in regards to scheming and making playcalls and adjustments at the line and it should require you to actually have a set game plan before heading into the game.

Now if they incorporate these changes into difficulty levels then I would gladly pay money to play All-Madden online against other people and hopefully get worked by some people who really know football.
I see what you're getting at, but I'd like to see as much kept separate from difficulty level as possible. As it is, there is a separate option for playbook complexity, and I think it should be kept separate, as I want full control, but don't want the CPU players being given ratings boosts.
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:05 PM   #10
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Re: Why Madden isn't recreating football as best it can (and how they can fix things)

To add on to the OP's post...

Run Game:
  • Engaged blocks need mobility. Until 2 engaged players can still flow towards the play, the run game will be broken.
  • Real blocking schemes. For example, trap blocking should actually try to influence then trap a d-linemen.

Pocket:
  • Not sure how anyone disagrees here, but until DEs get the AI & animations to rush up field and not directly at the OT, the pass rush & pocket will be broken. This is also related to engaged blocks needing mobility. OTs must be able to ride a DE beyond the QB.
  • Good DTs & NGs need better push up the middle.
  • Offensive playbooks need to communicate the QB drop for each play so that user controlled QBs know where the pocket will be since it's directly related to the QB drop depth.
  • There needs to be a pocket depths to match 3, 5 & 7 step drop pass plays.

For both the running a passing games, positioning has to become a bigger part of blocking. Reaching, driving & riding defenders must be added to the animation arsenal. Contain has to be added to defensive AI arsenal... and it must be part of the play call, not an audible.
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:20 PM   #11
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Re: Why Madden isn't recreating football as best it can (and how they can fix things)

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Originally Posted by adembroski
Blocking needs to be reworked, not just from a technical basis, but from the ground up a bit.

Example; currently, we're seeing the same engage/disengage system that's been used since the PS1 days, and while it was fine on previous systems, it's really showing it's age as the game seeks to simulate finer and finer aspects of the game.

For one thing, and 'engagement' is an initial win for the offense. It all but eliminates the suddenly moves that get a guy into the backfield quickly. Those great edge rushers who can pull a sack off out of nowhere by simply blowing bye someone simply don't exist in Madden to the extent they should.

A system based on two objects interacting... rather than two objects temporarily becoming one object... needs to be implemented and a dynamic system of interaction that results in realistic player movement is an absolute necessity.

Furthermore, the AI for blocking needs work. Right now, it's non-existent in the passing game because of meta-game thinking on the part of the engineers. They're so worked up about nano-blitzes that the linemen are simply psychic. There's no intelligence or logic to how they block, they just do, and you've got RTs blocking REs out of nowhere because the system is set up to simply account for every rusher, whether the line should conceivably be able to account for them or not. A player who does not account for his opponent's rushers should be punished by giving up a sack, not bailed out by super-human linemen!
Yeah, this^^^!!!

The auto engage has to go. That's an automatic advantage to the offense that then has to be countered by artificial means.

Wins for a blocker should come in many forms. Engagement, positioning, cutting, driving, riding a defender beyond a play, and the least common... pancaking.

Wins for a defender should come in many forms as well. Hand fighting to avoid engagement, being in the assigned gap, containing, disengaging & penetration.


And overload blitzing has to become a non-cheesy part of the game. The super blocking AI kills most of the defensive fun. A good blitz scheme will create free blitzers. If OTs are coming from the opposite side to make blocks, why blitz?
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:21 PM   #12
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Re: Why Madden isn't recreating football as best it can (and how they can fix things)

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Originally Posted by BezO
Yeah, this^^^!!!

The auto engage has to go. That's an automatic advantage to the offense that then has to be countered by artificial means.

Wins for a blocker should come in many forms. Engagement, positioning, cutting, driving, riding a defender beyond a play, and the least common... pancaking.

Wins for a defender should come in many forms as well. Hand fighting to avoid engagement, being in the assigned gap, containing, disengaging & penetration.


And overload blitzing has to become a non-cheesy part of the game. The super blocking AI kills most of the defensive fun. A good blitz scheme will create free blitzers. If OTs are coming from the opposite side to make blocks, why blitz?
Just to be fair, it should be noted that LBz has shown me tape of teams doing exactly that... having a RT come across the formation to pick up the outside rusher outside the left tackle... so it does happen...

However, not every RT can pull it off, and I can guarantee it was in response to something very specific their opponent was doing at that RT had to be assigned to do that before the snap. There's no way you can drop into a normal blocking position, make that kind of read, and come across the formation in time to make a block. This was designed for a specific situation, probably a specific defense, so the way it happens in Madden is really nothing more than a cheat to beat nano-blitzing... which would fix itself if snap anticipation and acceleration were more realistic.
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