Death to BOB, or, how blocking should work

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Please watch this video at the 3:07 mark http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#p/u/22/6pPXNt0vGjw Forgive me if I'm wrong but if madden's pass blocking is basically correct, they should block BOB and protect from the inside out (since inside is the quickest way to the qb). Basically in this example the guard slides to the outside on the de and lets a blitzing lb lined up almost at the LOS right through the A gap. The blocking issue is bigger than just RB's failing to pick up blitzing lbs properly.

Yeah, Grubbs (#66) should have taken the A-gap pressure and then Gaither (#71) could have taken the guy Grubbs picked to block. Granted, that would have left Osi coming off the edge. I don't know what he did, the video zoomed in past him.

If it was a zone blitz and Osi was dropping back, then Gaither could have tried to get back to the inside as well. Probably wouldn't have gotten there, but at least it would look better than just him waiting for the invisible man to come on the delayed blitz. Or maybe it would have created a holding call in the effort to save his QB from a big hit.

Of course, sometimes this happens in real life too. Guys on the OL aren't perfect and can get mixed up.

If this happens EVERY time, then yeah, it needs to be fixed, or if it happens frequenly to guys with high AWR and PBK ratings, but that's the thing with videos - is this just an occassional thing that stuck out, or is it a overly occuring flaw with no correlation to the abilities of the players in question?

[BezO]

Good to see more knowledgeable folks on the site! Until Madden satisfies this knowledgeable group, it's not a sim. You can't be sim only meeting the needs of the casual fan.

I've suggested area blocking many times, but the concept never got much attention.

I'd also like to see realistic traps, counters, ect. I haven't seen a DT get trapped in Madden ever.

[Sven Draconian]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Please watch this video at the 3:07 mark http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#p/u/22/6pPXNt0vGjw Forgive me if I'm wrong but if madden's pass blocking is basically correct, they should block BOB and protect from the inside out (since inside is the quickest way to the qb). Basically in this example the guard slides to the outside on the de and lets a blitzing lb lined up almost at the LOS right through the A gap. The blocking issue is bigger than just RB's failing to pick up blitzing lbs properly.

BOB= Big on Big (IE: Lineman on Lineman).They wouldn't pick up a blitzing linebacker, they would leave that to the running backs.

The running back should really be on check and release routes. Check the blitzers, if noone comes, you release. If somebody blitzes you pick them up.

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Good to see more knowledgeable folks on the site! Until Madden satisfies this knowledgeable group, it's not a sim. You can't be sim only meeting the needs of the casual fan. I've suggested area blocking many times, but the concept never got much attention. I'd also like to see realistic traps, counters, ect. I haven't seen a DT get trapped in Madden ever.

Meh, nobody in the NFL really runs a trap. Would it be kinda cool? Sure, but not terribly realistic.

Plus to put in a trap, you would have to put in a lot of more work on the defensive line. If you have the OL trap, the DL needs to wrong-arm a trap, or it should hit 100% of the time. Theres a new animation and new AI to program for a play that might be run 15 times a year....in the entire league.

[Hova57]

overall what's needed in madden is gap ai the cpu needs to know for each postion on the offensive line and front seven what gap they have whether two -three call it a or b don't make gap accountablity is what's missing in madden and ncaa . if we had gap accountablity then the 3-4 would work well too.

Sven you did a great job explaining how the line should work. i wish there was a way to get the oline and dline to work together on madden.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

BOB= Big on Big (IE: Lineman on Lineman).They wouldn't pick up a blitzing linebacker, they would leave that to the running backs. The running back should really be on check and release routes. Check the blitzers, if noone comes, you release. If somebody blitzes you pick them up.

I don't know know if you watched the video or not, but the example I used had the defense playing I believe nickel package with 3 dlineman. The lb was basicallly the fourth pass rusher. Wouldn't an olineman be asigned to an lb who was showing blitz in this scenario?

[Sven Draconian]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't know know if you watched the video or not, but the example I used had the defense playing I believe nickel package with 3 dlineman. The lb was basicallly the fourth pass rusher. Wouldn't an olineman be asigned to an lb who was showing blitz in this scenario?

Not of it's BOB blocking. However, the proper decision would be to change to a slide (area/gap) protection scheme.

What a real NFL team does is identify the MLB (What their pointing at all the time) and use that to number defenders, those numbers tell the lineman who to block. The line blocks certain numbers, the backs pick up certain numbers. An example (but no way official)...
....6.....5.....7
..1....2....3....4
..T.G..C..G...T

The lineman take 1-5 (the MLB is considered a "Big"). The RB's would take 6 and 7 if they blitz.

***That's just an example I've seen. The actual numbering can be divided any number of ways with any number of assignments.***

Now, when teams zone blitz lineman will swap jobs (for example "1" drops into a zone, but "6" blitzes... the tackle isn't just going to stand around).

The issue with a video game is the line can't change its count (and I do think the game tries to count in some way, but I don't know any details). So when a person brings extra guys to the line, those lineman don't know so how are they supposed to pick it up?

[Ovie]

If you have a twitter please post this to Ian.

@ian_cummings: PLEASE, PLEASE read this thread from Operation Sports. http://bit.ly/5SHYNh Great way to improve O-Line blocking!!!

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Meh, nobody in the NFL really runs a trap. Would it be kinda cool? Sure, but not terribly realistic.

Not sure if I agree that traps are not common, but either way, they're still run. Up until a couple of years ago, the sweep/toss was extinct. It's back. This stuff needs to be in the game. Who knows what the trend will be next year?

Who knew the Dolphins would feature the wild cat 2 years ago? If proper blocking interaction mechanics were in the game, maybe we could've had real wild cat plays in this year, without the limitations.

Many plays are run only a few times, but they're common enough that they need to be programmed correctly. How many flea-flickers do we see? Reverses? Double screens? Reverses on kick-returns? Double passes? Sweep-option passes?

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Plus to put in a trap, you would have to put in a lot of more work on the defensive line. If you have the OL trap, the DL needs to wrong-arm a trap, or it should hit 100% of the time. Theres a new animation and new AI to program for a play that might be run 15 times a year....in the entire league.

The mechanics would be useful. Similar mechanics could be used for screens, reverses, ect.