3 Keys to a more organic gameplay.

[da ThRONe]

Well Madden has tendencies(hopefully NCAA has some sense of it) and NCAA has arm tackles(I'm sure Madden has it as well) Looking like I'm 2 for 3 right now. Come on rating specifics moves for the trifecta.

[carnalnirvana]

madden could have had player specific ratings for years now however this is not new development needed it will have to be a change in rating philosophy........


every player shares the same ratings and thats the problem, WR have ratings like RB's DT's have ratings like LB's this is why the game plays similar ever play.


and people buy into the rating philosophy ea has set up, i am very interested to see the tendencies they have this year.

but beyond tendencies player effectiveness also needs to be addressed

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

madden could have had player specific ratings for years now however this is not new development needed it will have to be a change in rating philosophy........ every player shares the same ratings and thats the problem, WR have ratings like RB's DT's have ratings like LB's this is why the game plays similar ever play. and people buy into the rating philosophy ea has set up, i am very interested to see the tendencies they have this year. but beyond tendencies player effectiveness also needs to be addressed

In every sports game every player share the same ratings. I don't see how this is a problem.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

every player shares the same ratings and thats the problem, WR have ratings like RB's DT's have ratings like LB's this is why the game plays similar ever play

That's the way it should be. If anything, there's too many ratings, which is making it harder to balance effectiveness because there's so many variables involved.

If it were just reduced closer to base physical and mental abilities, and have everything else play off those, maybe we could get more diversity and subtlety in ratings and performances. FBPro 98 had more diversity in player performances and all players had just 8 ratings - all of them just physical and mental. Things like route running ability were a weighted combination of two or more base ratings (typically just two, though blocking often required three as did pass rushing).

Position should just impact the "typical ranges" of these skills (where base FBPro 98 tended to fail) and the game system needs to express those differences solidly and consistently so that there's real risk/reward choices or situations you need to try to avoid (a place FBPro 98 excelled)

To me, that's where Madden seems to slide - the greats are too close to perfect, the average guys are either too close to the greats or not worth having, there's not enough "good-but-not-great" players, and the players that do have weaknesses don't get those weaknesses exposed because the game system doesn't penalize hard enough for deficient ability/being overmatched in certain one-on-one matchups.

Tendencies would certain help with that, allowing you to create situations where you can exploit weaknesses in technique/play style without necessarily killing physical ability of the player.

[DocZulu]

Great thread.

I only play online but I can definitely tell you that this would easily extend the playability of the game by 3 or 4 months.

I've very much enjoyed Madden 11 but the NBA2k has really embarrassed the franchise.

NBA2k is the definition of superior sports gaming.

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

madden could have had player specific ratings for years now however this is not new development needed it will have to be a change in rating philosophy........ every player shares the same ratings and thats the problem, WR have ratings like RB's DT's have ratings like LB's this is why the game plays similar ever play. and people buy into the rating philosophy ea has set up, i am very interested to see the tendencies they have this year. but beyond tendencies player effectiveness also needs to be addressed

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Well Madden has tendencies(hopefully NCAA has some sense of it) and NCAA has arm tackles(I'm sure Madden has it as well) Looking like I'm 2 for 3 right now. Come on rating specifics moves for the trifecta.

Madden and NCAA have had ratings-specific animations for a LONG while now. Perhaps they just need to be more prevalent...?

[carnalnirvana]

ahhh. beyong great leaping ability and hands, sick catches and good iQ fitzgerald should have no trucking, spin, juke stiff arm etc thats just excessive.

he is basically a RB, same ratings = same animations = same gameplay.

i dont mind the game having 50 ratings, all i am saying is that because kevin williams is a beast doesn't mean he needs a 95 in every defensive category.

in theory he's great but in video game land giving him all those 95's makes him break the game,

i may be too literal for gaming but i watched the combine and just from looking i saw that LB's were half as agile in terms of moving their feet and adjusting to sudden changes in the drills as DB's which should translate to half the ratings in madden meaning few, VERY FEW LB should be above 50 in agility, and when applied to madden in testing the millisecond reaction times of guys jumping 20ft in the air to swat passes disappeared

then you see guys like garry bracket with an 85 agility, 10 points away from revis WOW

this may seem like nit picking but madden does not have the animations to differentiate those two players in certain areas.

[J-SKI]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dianwei32

Wow... that's crazy, as I was coming to OS I was thinking about how there needed to be more arm tackle animations since that's how most tackles are broken in real football. Right on. The other stuff is great too. Two things I would add though: Lower the effectivness of shoestring tackles and "stumble forward" animations. Shoestring tackles are 100% effective in Madden, but if you look at real players in the NFL/NCAA you can see times where the HB will be able to maintain his balance and keep running, but that never happens in Madden. With the stumbling animations, it's just ridiculous because A) They stumble forward for 8-10 yards, and B) once the stumbling animation triggers there is nothing the defense can do. I've seen times where I hit the HB at the line of scrimmage, but a stumble animation triggered and he gained 7 yards (and a first down on 3rd and 5) and he pushed 6 defenders aside during the animation, even though any of them could have fallen on him and stopped him to bring up 4th down.

thats because there is no consecutive hit tackling which i have been advocating for years. the other football title which came out in 08 (won't mention names) established this perfectly because you were able to tackle someone that is already being tackled. and no im not talking about the very weak and faulty pro-tak system either.