Developer Interaction for Madden 11

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by MattIntellect

Some people refuse to accept this: http://www.operationsports.com/Ian_C...-a-new-engine/ which I've pointed out many of times. All people know is the word "engine" and it need to be improved or similar to Backbreaker's. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to convince anyone of the truth that Madden has multiple engines that are updated every year. Also, I'm more than sure that the Madden team developer interaction here will stay the same, if not improve. I highly doubt that official EA Sports info would move to Ian's twitter account and all other crazy possibilities. I expect the news to start flowing during halftime at the Superbowl and then take off from there.

I did say the word, "speculate" not guarantee. EA purchased a new physics based engine and people were speculating that would be put into Madden.

I don't know if the Madden team plans on swapping their physics engine with the new physics engine EA purchased.

Ian already mentioned on Twitter there was going to be a different mode of communication on the forums vs last year.

Take it for what it's worth, don't shoot the messenger.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by MattIntellect

Some people refuse to accept this: http://www.operationsports.com/Ian_C...-a-new-engine/ which I've pointed out many of times. All people know is the word "engine" and it need to be improved or similar to Backbreaker's. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to convince anyone of the truth that Madden has multiple engines that are updated every year. Also, I'm more than sure that the Madden team developer interaction here will stay the same, if not improve. I highly doubt that official EA Sports info would move to Ian's twitter account and all other crazy possibilities. I expect the news to start flowing during halftime at the Superbowl and then take off from there.

Just because people don't discuss the engines specifically doesn't mean there aren't issues. We aren't game developers, we don't know what the engines do or how they work. Here's my 'guess' at what needs fixed though.

Rendering Engine - Needs to properly render the game fluidly (only does so in replays when played very slowly right now). This is why many 2K fans complain about the game looking robotic or choppy.

Physics Engine - Needs better interaction with the animation engine on the movement (footwork), acceleration, and change of direction (still almost instant, just has a little circle animation now which quickly changing).

Game Engine - Needs tons of small fixes such as the INTs lowered (slider fixed), recognize when the player is done or out of bounds properly, and a host of other issues such as lineplay / blocking. Needs to support route based passing. Needs to work with the physics engine to provide proper arc on the ball when passing (to stop the LB 10 yards off INTs).

I found a quote of mine from earlier in the year that I feel is still applicable:

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Madden is a game in crisis, a creation inhibited by it's own success, crippled by the complexity of a legacy code base, and burdened by game design sins of the past. Crisis breeds one of two things, success or failure. I don't expect to be blown away. I expect to be satisfied that the game's finally headed in the right direction, which will be a momentous change since the 2006 release and on. For Madden this year, that will be success in my eyes.

I was definitely not blown away. I was let down in many areas such as presentation, half time show, I guess immersion overall. I was impressed with ProTak and how runs end (tackles in general). I am satisfied the game's finally headed in the right direction, but think it will be a couple more years before it's something I truly want to play and enjoy as a realistic game of football.

[Valdarez]

As for why Ian disappeared. I got my used copy of Madden, and started posting, and *poof* no more Ian. I'm fairly confident this is the 'real' reason.

[falconfansince81]

Quote: Originally Posted by Segagendude

I never said Madden 10 sucks.In fact, I like this year's version alot more than past Maddens'. I was hoping for updates here at OS like last year. I'm not a Twitter person. So, I wait for EA blogs that somebody posts here.

whats so much better (non-cosmetically) this year than prior years? nobodys been able to answer this whenever they defend it, they just say its better and leave it at that. gameplay is worse by leaps and bounds...

i guess i can't blame the devs for not coming around, i'd be embarrassed too if most of the feedback i got was negative. but then again i take pride in my work and don't really know much about their work ethic/dedication aside from a paycheck.

[rsoxguy12]

Ian wasn't forced by anybody to come to these forums; the reason he came was because he passionately wanted Madden 10 to be great and in my opinion, it is. It was his choice to come to these forums and because of some bad people here, he decided not to.
However, I still think he should interact with the community day boys. They had the most impact out of all of us on these message boards; Ian could private message them or something and they could fill the rest of us in on what's going on. Or maybe Ian could set up a forum with those members only where they can post but all other OS members can only view the threads, not post in them.

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by rsoxguy12

Ian wasn't forced by anybody to come to these forums; the reason he came was because he passionately wanted Madden 10 to be great and in my opinion, it is. It was his choice to come to these forums and because of some bad people here, he decided not to.

I'm not so sure of that. I think there may have been some pressure to interact with the community. Did you notice how there was interaction across the board last year for Madden, NBA Live, NCAA Football, and NCAA basketball and now there is none for any of them. There could've been more EA sports games involved as well, but I didn't look in those forums. Anyway, I know for a fact that the community guy for NCAA football seemed like he didn't wanna be bothered with it most days. I don't think it's coincidence that they all stopped posting this year. Also, like someone else said, what's the difference between post here and twitter? I think it's more of an organizational thing than an Ian thing.

Anyway, I think it's best that Ian, or anyone else working on the game, not post here unless they're looking for ideas or something because they let alot of people down, myself included, this year. I'm not saying that Madden 10 was bad. It's just that half of the stuff that was brought up here never even made it into the game. I'd rather not here anything until it was done and in the game. I don't need them selling me wolf tickets on stuff they HOPE to get into the game.

Ian is a cool guy and I know he wouldn't purposely deceive us. He just showed us too much stuff before it was actually in the game and half/most of that stuff didn't make it. That's why I say, they should just keep quiet and work on the game. Once the "feature" is actually in the game and working, THEN bring it out and announce it. That way, people, like myself, won't be disappointed when the game comes out and they don't see the "feature" that was discussed in a 35 page thread.

Disclaimer: I haven't checked the Basketball forums a whole lot this year yet so I might have missed it if a developer was there. I just know that the times that I have checked it there have been no threads or posts from the developers. If they have been there and I missed them I apologize and stand corrected. I know for a fact though, that the football developers haven't been there.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by falconfansince81

whats so much better (non-cosmetically) this year than prior years? nobodys been able to answer this whenever they defend it, they just say its better and leave it at that. gameplay is worse by leaps and bounds...

I would like to tackle that question [pun intended.]

Right off the bat, running the football in M10 is better than any other next gen Madden game, and almost as good as last gen's madden 07. Granted, the blocking is still stupid, but I am talking about the running backs themselves. They are more fluid and play more natural than in prior instalments. It still isn't perfect and realistic, but I like it a lot more. I am a 2k fan boy, but the "charge" and "tap for speed burst" felt very arcade like to me.

The Passing game in Madden 10 is also, overall, better than prior installments. Routes are actually in time with the QB's drop back. That was never the case in Madden until this year. NEVER. It still isn'yt as good as 2k, but it is the best Madden has ever done. We still need route based passing and other improvements, however, as long as you are not facing press coverage, you can throw timing routes all day long. The deep ball is a joke this year, and the DB Swat/tackle animation, imo, is worse than the old DB super swat from years past, and I hate how on some routes DBs get psychic abilities and run routes ahead of my receivers, but that is not a passing game issue, rather a coverage issue. In Madden 10 you can actually run curls and posts and ins and outs and slants and such with timing. That is important to me as a pocket passer who likes a west coast style of play. I just wish screen plays and deep "bombs" were better. Also don't know why we don't have "route based passing" I hate that many times the QB will throw to where the WR is and not where he is going.

While the blocking AI is really bad, once engaged, the interactions between offensive and defensive players is nice. The problem is suction blocking and AI that knows all your blitz schemes, but when you play against the computer they get confused.

I like the "throw out of the grasp" mechanic that ends up with lame duck passes. It still needs to be tuned more and we need INTENTIONAL GROUNDINGto be added to the game. I know it is in there, but not like real life. They only call intentional grounding when you throw the ball out of bounds by hitting the throw the ball away button while in the pocket. If you are throwing the ball to avoid the sack, that's IG. namely, this is something the computer does a lot to avoid a sack because it will NEVER get called for IG. If IG became a penalty and the computer had awareness of it, that wouls add a whole new layer to the game. it would take more sacks in stead of just getting rid of the ball randomly. It might even scramble more. right now the AI just says to itself, "pressure is comming, throw the ball to initiate the 'throw from the grasp animation' so I don't lose yards." Despite all this, that feature is really nice.

I could go on. Madden 10 is not perfect, there are a lot of problems [Blocking AI and pursuit angles are still my top two issues of in-game play,] however, it is the best next gen madden game and one of the better in-game Madden games to date. [2k5 is my favorite NFL Game and 07 on XBox is my favorite Madden game by the way. Madden 10 is solid ground work for future games. 09 was the worst madden I ever played. Worse than 08 IMO.]

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

Right off the bat, running the football in M10 is better than any other next gen Madden game, and almost as good as last gen's madden 07. Granted, the blocking is still stupid, but I am talking about the running backs themselves. They are more fluid and play more natural than in prior instalments. It still isn't perfect and realistic, but I like it a lot more. I am a 2k fan boy, but the "charge" and "tap for speed burst" felt very arcade like to me.

I agree with you on the tap part, but the charge part didn't bother me. I think it's realistic to prepare to make a quick move, and the charge somewhat reflects that premise. Too many people worry about the feedback of the game, rather than what it's trying to represent. Personally, I think Madden and 2K games lack visual feedback in a HOST of areas such as number of times a play has been run on the Play screen (I'm old, I can't remember what I ran), to how much pressure a QB is feeling when throwing (rumble, or red glow, both work for me), to how fired up someone is (in the moment, biorhythm, whatever you want to call it). I could go on and on. The game should look real when I play, but throw me a bone and let me know what's going on in it. That's a lot of the fun of playing.

As for the running game, I can't really tell it's better. The pathing for blocking is horrendous, though blocking is better (thanks to sliders primarily). The only reason the running game looks better to me is the fact that I can slow the game down, which granted does make it look better, but not necessarily play better. I do think Madden has great end of run animations, whether it's the tackle or simply the player falling down. I like them far better than even APF2K8's animations.

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

The Passing game in Madden 10 is also, overall, better than prior installments. Routes are actually in time with the QB's drop back. That was never the case in Madden until this year. NEVER. It still isn'yt as good as 2k, but it is the best Madden has ever done. We still need route based passing and other improvements, however, as long as you are not facing press coverage, you can throw timing routes all day long.

Please define timing routes. You definitely can't throw route based passes still. Meaning you can't throw before they make their cut and then they come back and catch it. You have to wait until they are making the cut (very small window) and throw it which is even hard on Very Slow speed and even then there's a good chance the DB's will cut under as they immediately jump the ball AS the QB pulls the ball back to throw (they react better than the WR who is expecting the pass), and unfortunately even with the slider to 0 the problem cannot be fixed.

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

While the blocking AI is really bad, once engaged, the interactions between offensive and defensive players is nice.

Looks nice 'maybe', plays nice, definitely not. The timing of ALL player moves on any speed but very fast is horribly delayed. Half the time you make a move on any speed of Normal or below it takes almost a second for it to occur. It's a horrible lag on the action that complete ruins the actual gameplay. As the gamer you can't make a move and expect it to happen. What your left with is pretty much passing and running the ball, and letting the CPU do everything else. Now that's 'simulation' for you, but definitely not the 'sim' I'm looking for in a football game.

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I like the "throw out of the grasp" mechanic that ends up with lame duck passes. It still needs to be tuned more and we need INTENTIONAL GROUNDINGto be added to the game.

*cough* It's nice they added it, but WAY too many of these passes go INT'd which is utterly unrealistic. They get the 'we got it in there' ribbon, but they don't get the big prize for 'we got it right'. Does a faulty implementation of something that was in a game the previous year make it better? I don't know. Part of me says yes, the other part says no. I'll lean on the yes on this one, but I wish they'd focus on getting it 'right' more than just getting it in there so they can claim they have it.

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I could go on. Madden 10 is not perfect, there are a lot of problems [Blocking AI and pursuit angles are still my top two issues of in-game play,] however, it is the best next gen madden game and one of the better in-game Madden games to date. [2k5 is my favorite NFL Game and 07 on XBox is my favorite Madden game by the way. Madden 10 is solid ground work for future games. 09 was the worst madden I ever played. Worse than 08 IMO.]

I could on too. The game fixed a lot of problems, and added a lot of half-*** features capabilities. I say that because it feels/looks like they added them just to say they have them, and not to really blow us away with what they did. The legacy of NFL 2K5 seems to have loomed large over them, and in their desperation to close the gap they settled.

Madden 10 is a better game, but what makes it a better game to me are the bug fixes, the slower game speed, the sliders, and ProTak (which I like very much). Those are really the only things I can point to and say that makes it better than Madden '09. To be fair, I wasn't all that familiar with '09, as I played about 8 games of it and then shelved it as it in no way represented a game of football. Things like presentation felt subpar, mainly due twitchy pacing, poor commentary, limited and/or missing commentary (about 1% of commentary that's needed), bad camera angles, and crazy bad use of Ads (worst use of Ads in a game that I personally have experienced). The online might be better, but I haven't played it online as I still feel the game is too fundamentally flawed to play competitively and enjoy.