Will every completed pass still require a tackle...

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hova57

get rid of that dumb shoestring tackle

Don't get rid of it, tone it down... a lot. It was awesome the first time I saw it. It is a nice animation. Saddly, it plays too often. Just like a lot of other things in this game, it isn't tuned right.

[jvaccaro]

Quote: Originally Posted by jvaccaro

I'd really like to see some "tackle" animations where the ball carrier goes down to avoid the big hit when they are surrounded.

Quote: Originally Posted by ennepetal

Do you realize how much complaining would accompany that one?

more or less the same amount of complaining a NFL receiver might get in the locker room after doing the same thing IRL.

"Everything you see on Sunday" ...and this is one of the most obvious things you see dozens of times in every single game that you've never once seen in any Madden game.

[PGaither84]

I am going to Qute an important part of an important blog from around this time last year:

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian Cummings

Madden NFL 10 - Improvements to QB position Feb. 23, 2009 3:26 PM EST [...] New QB Ratings Our next big change for the QB position was the addition of some new ratings. For countless years we've basically had Throw Power, Throw Accuracy, and Awareness as the only ratings for the QB position, so it's very hard to differentiate the players correctly and have them perform more like their real-life counterparts with just those few. For example, a superstar like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would previously have a very high Throw Accuracy rating like a 98, well that had to be the case for a 5 yard screen or a 65 yard heave! Here are our new ratings: 1. Deep Ball Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on deep passes (streaks, deep posts, etc) 2. Medium Passing Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on medium passes (outs, corners, etc) 3. Short Passing Accuracy: Determines the accuracy on short passes (quick smash, flats, etc) 4. Throw on the Run: Creates a modifier to accuracy when the QB is throwing on the run. Every QB will take some sort of accuracy hit when throwing on the run, but a QB that has a high rating here will take a smaller hit. 5. Play Action: Determines the 'effectiveness' of Play Action for a QB, i.e. how often they can fake out or freeze the defense (which is obviously weighted against the defenders Play Recognition ratings) With Donny's new philosophy on ratings, the addition of these ratings immediately made the game play VERY differently than in years past. Chucking up the deep ball with a QB with high throw power but bad accuracy is definitely a recipe for disaster! We have recently been doing tuning to scale down these effects on the lower skill levels because QB's are way more inaccurate than you're used to seeing, and we felt this would be a little too hard to play for a casual player. Rest assured though, on All Pro and All Madden, we will have a much more realistic representation of accuracy for the QB's. I know I've read many times that in the past it seems that the only incomplete passes in Madden are either swatted, dropped, or intercepted...that is definitely no longer the case. The other change that was made once we got in all these accuracy changes was to change our accuracy 'algorithm'. Previously there was a big circle that got drawn around the player and we picked a random point in that circle based on the rating check. However, you could get pretty unpredictable results in this system. I'll show you why in the case of an out route headed towards the sideline: Even if we determined that it should be an inaccurate pass behind him, it could end up hitting the WR right in the numbers since he could slow down as the ball was released. So we changed this up to match more of a realistic system based on what an NFL QB would do. Here is the NEW system: We implemented across the board based on the 'err on the side of caution' aspect. Good QB's will put the ball where only their receiver can get it, and bad QB's, well, they'll at least try to do that. We also used this concept for precision passing. It always felt strange to be holding 'down' on a precision pass on a curl route, only to have the ball sail over the player's head. The new algorithm will err on the direction that you are holding...so if you are trying to throw it to low to a player on a quick smash, you would put it in the dirt (assuming that your QB's short accuracy rating determined the pass would be inaccurate). Eagles fans probably know this phenomenon all too well. Well that's it for this week. We definitely feel these changes will really help make our game much more realistic and authentic, and also improve control, responsiveness, and even accessibility along with it. There are quite a few more improvements coming to the passing game and QB's in general, but it will be a little while until we release that information (as we aren't quite sure how far we're going to get yet).

While this improvement is nice and all, the problem still is the lack of "route based passing." Even in his examples, Ian is admitting that QBs are throwing passes everytime based on where the receiver is and not where he is going. I understand when a play breaks down that this formula should take place, however, there are no true timing passes in this game. [I still argue that there are a form of timing passes in Madden. Namely roputes and the QB's drop are finally in sync with each other; However, there are far too many example of the user trying to lead a receiver and wanting to throw to a spot knowing your WR is about to make his cut and will be open, only to see the QB throw a streak becasue the WR hasn't actually made the cut yet.] We need Route based passing in the game as much as that blog to be active.

Put simply, Madden 10 came a long way, and Madden 11+ still has a long way to go.

[kcarr]

One other thing that I have thought of that really probably makes 2k's "bad passes" seem less random than ea's "bad passes" is the degrees of success implemented by each company. Each game basically has a target area where the QB is trying to throw the ball and a larger area around that where the ball may go.

2k does a much better job at determining all the factors that effect how large the outer circle is and where the ball should go in it. 2k brings in pressure, if the qb is running, if he is stationary then if his feet are set, the qb's ratings, and the coverage around the reciever, and any leading the qb is trying to do to determine how big the outer area should be. EA uses the if the qb is running and if his feet are set and his ratings along with any leading you try to do. 2k also has more ratings there that are used such as pocket presence, tough as nails to determine effects of pressure, etc.

after the areas are set both games randomly determine where within the area. This part is the same, no matter how much some of you want to believe there is no random factor in 2k's game this is random. As proof go take a generic qb and throw the same route to the same reciever at the same time with no coverage and see whether the ball hits the same place every time or not. Here is a hint, it won't. There is a random factor here.

The next area 2k really seperates itself from 2k in this part of the game is how the reciever reacts to the ball. This is a large reason why in madden it feels like it just decides this pass is going to be incomplete as a "random bad throw" where you don't get the same feeling in 2k. With each game there are different reactions by the reciever depending on where the ball is within the area. While I am not going to give full description of everything that happens (would be impossible without seeing the actual code) I will give you a basic idea which will show why it feels so much better in 2k

Area ball is in 2k madden
Inside circle, reciever catches ball catch ball in
perfect pass in stride, does not slow stride, no slow
down, large yac possibilities down

Next area out some adjustment, some catch ball in
slowing possible, usually stride, no slow
still upright down, possible
warping

next area good recievers may be same as above
able to stay upright, lesser higher chance
recievers may go to ground of warping
to make catch

next area higher chance of incomplete same as above
passes, good recievers still
catch with regularity but
heavy adjustment required

next area takes a great play by a complete miss
great reciever to make a reciever makes
play on the ball. most will no effort
make an attepmt but usually
fail

next area out of reach, may get a same as above
failing effort but no success

See, madden goes directly from catch to fail with no transition which makes the fails seem random whereas 2k has so many more animations to show all levels of success by a qb to all levels of receivers that it feels more natural and realistic.

[Jono078]

Just took a video of a game from superstar mode about the sort of annoying passes I was talking about on All Madden difficulty.

I snap the ball and see the defense backing off Moss so I try to get it out to him while he's open, and if it gets to him I think he's off for a touchdown.

Instead Moss gets sloppy and drops it under no real pressure from the defense..

Now fair enough that can happen in real life, but not every 2nd or 3rd pass that goes Moss' way should that happen!

[JayhawkerStL]

It would happen every second or third pass in the situation you just threw up there. You threw the ball at a time he was open, but obviously way before he was expecting the pass. Completing that pass 100% of the time would just go towards breaking the game.

Now, if Moss recognizes the coverage and cuts in or stops to take advantage because he and Brady are on the same page, then it should be good. But Madden, not any other football game ever created is that advanced yet.

My understanding is that players ability to catch the ball increase when you throw as they make their cut, or once they reach the arrow on a go fly pattern. It definitely worked that way in APFB.

And again, showing a video of something happening is not enough. Players drop easy passes, and miss open receivers. What kind of numbers are you putting up? Are you having a hard time passing? Are your completion %'s way off and passer rating down. What kind stats is Moss putting up when he does catch the ball?

Long term stat matter way more than one play, even if you assure us it happens al the time.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jono078

Just took a video of a game from superstar mode about the sort of annoying passes I was talking about on All Madden difficulty. I snap the ball and see the defense backing off Moss so I try to get it out to him while he's open, and if it gets to him I think he's off for a touchdown. Instead Moss gets sloppy and drops it under no real pressure from the defense.. Now fair enough that can happen in real life, but not every 2nd or 3rd pass that goes Moss' way should that happen!

I don't see it every 2nd or 3rd pass to anyone and I'm using a crap QB (now Pat White) and bad/very raw WR (even worse than my Crabtree/Britt combo), and QB accuracy slider of 25 and WR catching of 40 - so lower than the default All-Pro sliders and still doesn't happen to me every 2nd/3rd pass.

Pat White sucked (sucked so much I drafted Michael Bolt even though I didn't plan on taking a QB...or even being 5-11 and 6-10 *sigh* - I just couldn't deal with 8 TD and 20 INTs anymore) but not for the reason in the video.

It does happen to me, usually to my crappy TEs and occassionally to my HB (when I had AP and his mediocre CTH rating, not so much with Chris Johnson and almost never with Ray Rice) more than my WR, though, but not with THAT kind of frequency.

[Thepro318]

one thing with MADDEn u don't see in madden is players juggles catches to the ground and madden need ref make a call is a catch or not even if he really didn't catch it u know