Importing draft logic for Madden 11.

[Herky]

Last year the size of the player had a big effect on where they were rating in Madden. Has that been taken out?

[tlc12576]

I'm going to add my two cents even though I think it will fall on deaf EArs.

In real life certain skill sets are universal to football regardless of position or the level it's played on. Speed, throwing power, strength, and jump, immediately come to mind. A RG that runs a 4.40 40, should be the same speed as a CB that runs a 4.40. These skill sets should only flucuate based on things like injury, age, field condition and weather, no matter if it is Madden or NCAA. THP is the same as well, Kyle Boller would be bad at throwing an out based on his accuracy, not his THP.

Other skill sets like deep/medium/short accuracy, play recognition, footwork etc, should stay the same when NCAA draft classes are carried over to Madden too but should flucuate in both games based on player progression.

AWR should be the most determining factor for EVERY players OVR in both games. Now ideally, AWR for NCAA draft classes into Madden should be based on what system the collegiate player played in. This would allow for players like J. Russell to be drafted high for their skill set but have a low AWR ( like 25), compared to Jimmy Clausen coming in with a high AWR (like 70) but lower skill sets. Progressing Rusell into a star player would seem harder and less probable in this case. I say "seem" because if he had an "A" for player potential, that would mean he would eventually have an OVR in the 90s and therefore a high AWR but it might take years to achieve. However, all this is predicated on the Potential grade being hidden again.

All that said, I agree with the OP, certain player ratings, like SPD and THP, should stay the same when importing NCAA draft classes.

[Vundy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by cletusdog

andre Woodson was never a top prospect. he had some hype as being a 1st round type guy but in reality went into the draft as a possible 3rd rounder and simply fell from there. He is not an example of what i was talking about

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

[moylan1234]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vundy33

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

those things don't mean anything plenty of college qb's put up huge numbers in college, but for one reason or another don't do well in the pros like Ty Detmer, BJ Symons, and many more

[cletusdog]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vundy33

You're high! Woodson was the #2-#4 rated QB that year but just wasn't an NFL quarterback. Alot of ppl thought he was...but he had a tick in his throwing motion, and the 8-5 season hurt him too. He led the country in passing eff. and touchdowns. How's that not a top-tier QB?

Woodson's mechanics were horrendous.
It was a bad QB year so being a top 5 QB is all relative.

also, getting hype as a top pick the year prior to your final year doesn't carry any weight. Many guys are supposed to be "top 10 talent" but it's just hype.
as you put in your post, he had a lot of things working against him, so how is he a top flight prospect like the guys that this thread is referring to.
WHY are we even talking about Andre Woodson?
Anyone wanna discuss Ryan Perriloux or Jevan Snead

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by havokeff

Why? Being the fastest person in college, does not automatically mean you are the fastest person in the NFL.

Yes, actually it does. Speed is speed is speed. There are tangible physical attributes. It's the intangibles that make a player good/great in this league. A great example is Manny Lawson of the 49ers. A 6'6" linebacker who is also the fastest in the league, or now the second fastest after two leg injuries and having Patrick Willis entering the league. He has all the physical tools to be a dominating player in the NFL, but he doesn't have the intangibles. The Madden versions of awareness, play recognition, man/zone coverage, and tackling. He was always and has continued to be a great physical specimen, but he has never really put it together. Now, he is still a good LB because of these skills and is a 77-80 OVR in Madden, but hardly the elite guy he 49ers were hoping he would be when they drafted him in the first round along with Vernon Davis.

I could give example after example of strong arm QBs like J. Russell or fast backs like Reggie Bush who all have/had explosive physical traits but have failedto be elite NFL athletes for one reason or another.

To have a College player with 97 Throwing power come import into Madden with below 95 or so THP is a joke. A running back with 97 Speed comming in at under 95 or so speed is a joke.

The way Madden used to import Draft classes on last generation was done a lot better regarding their ratings. Physical ratings often stayed the same, some times went down by a few minor points or even up a point or two to show continued physical growth. What the game did was lower the intangible ratings of players. In this generation's terms, that would be Man an Zone coverage, route running, play recognition, awareness, ball carrier vision, etc.

[GlennN]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

Yes, actually it does. Speed is speed is speed. There are tangible physical attributes. It's the intangibles that make a player good/great in this league. A great example is Manny Lawson of the 49ers. A 6'6" linebacker who is also the fastest in the league, or now the second fastest after two leg injuries and having Patrick Willis entering the league. He has all the physical tools to be a dominating player in the NFL, but he doesn't have the intangibles. The Madden versions of awareness, play recognition, man/zone coverage, and tackling. He was always and has continued to be a great physical specimen, but he has never really put it together. Now, he is still a good LB because of these skills and is a 77-80 OVR in Madden, but hardly the elite guy he 49ers were hoping he would be when they drafted him in the first round along with Vernon Davis. I could give example after example of strong arm QBs like J. Russell or fast backs like Reggie Bush who all have/had explosive physical traits but have failedto be elite NFL athletes for one reason or another. To have a College player with 97 Throwing power come import into Madden with below 95 or so THP is a joke. A running back with 97 Speed comming in at under 95 or so speed is a joke. The way Madden used to import Draft classes on last generation was done a lot better regarding their ratings. Physical ratings often stayed the same, some times went down by a few minor points or even up a point or two to show continued physical growth. What the game did was lower the intangible ratings of players. In this generation's terms, that would be Man an Zone coverage, route running, play recognition, awareness, ball carrier vision, etc.

Well stated! I agree with you.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by GlennN

Well stated! I agree with you.

That is the same thing I said in my post and I didn't get so much as an Amen from anybody! LOL

Guess PG just said it more eloquent, freakin copy cat! LOL (joke)

Also, I am constantly hearing from Madden vets that EA used to do this and that right but not anymore, WTF? What ever happened to "if it aint broke dont fix it" for crying out loud. Madden has enough issues every year for them to address without messing up the things that are done right. For example, I want to know what Madden demographic asked for Player Potential (AKA Future OVR) to be shown. I sure don't think it was franchise guys and that's where the feature is relevant.

For all the strides this game has made since 2005, it all feels incoherent and off balance. The simple idea of importing college players from NCAA into Madden was brilliant. With next-gen Madden, it seems like the devs forgot that simple ideas, like having certain skill sets universal, can lead to brilliant outcomes.