Why doesn't he just come back?

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

Especially if you are the only product they can get because YOUR company bought out the competition and got very lazy.

Your company buys out the competition all the time. I can point to several really good products they have ruined. (I bet you can too)

Guys like us in the business world are used to dealing with customers, and their occasional vitriol. Game developers really are sheltered from it, unless they take it upon themselves to venture forth onto the forums, and then when they do it's a rude awakening.

When you start your career and are exposed to it pretty much from year 1, you slowly learn to ignore the anger and focus on the problem. You also learn to turn a deaf ear to most things. Though I will say that I rarely had to deal with any personal attacks myself. Usually if a customer were interacting with me, they were utterly grateful to have such a high connection.

Ian said via twitter that he didn't realize what he signed up for when he started interacting with the community. He had no idea he'd get the backlash for the NFL Exclusive Deal angst. At the same time, he didn't have experience handling customer criticism/anger (Ian even said he had me blocked, but while I criticized harshly at times, I can't find anywhere where I personally attacked in my posts, so the skin was thin to start), and to make things worse, many community members didn't appreciate the direct communication they had with an EA representative (something that is very hard to come by).

I personally enjoy the communication, and the insights we get into the development process and the state of the game. As a fan of 2K Sports, I can tell you it's far more than 2K Sports has ever deigned to provide to the community, especially in the football arena. 3 years after the release of APF2K8 and they still haven't given us information on exactly how the Player Abilities work, no patch to fix some of the easily fixable problems, and they even took down the league websites after telling us they would be back when they went down initially (the loss of which effectively killed the online community). As much as a dislike EA for screwing gamers over the NFL Exclusive licensing deal (yes, I know it's not EA's fault, but we'll agree to disagree on that topic for now), 2K Sports has shown themselves to be utterly indifferent to their fans as well, even on things that don't take much time/$$$ such as answering basic questions about their game. EA Sports have won points in the community / interaction arena for their football fans in my humble view, while 2K Sports seems to have gone out of their way to shun their football community.

[JerzeyReign]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Your company buys out the competition all the time. I can point to several really good products they have ruined. (I bet you can too) Guys like us in the business world are used to dealing with customers, and their occasional vitriol. Game developers really are sheltered from it, unless they take it upon themselves to venture forth onto the forums, and then when they do it's a rude awakening. When you start your career and are exposed to it pretty much from year 1, you slowly learn to ignore the anger and focus on the problem. You also learn to turn a deaf ear to most things. Though I will say that I rarely had to deal with any personal attacks myself. Usually if a customer were interacting with me, they were utterly grateful to have such a high connection. Ian said via twitter that he didn't realize what he signed up for when he started interacting with the community. He had no idea he'd get the backlash for the NFL Exclusive Deal angst. At the same time, he didn't have experience handling customer criticism/anger (Ian even said he had me blocked, but while I criticized harshly at times, I can't find anywhere where I personally attacked in my posts, so the skin was thin to start), and to make things worse, many community members didn't appreciate the direct communication they had with an EA representative (something that is very hard to come by). I personally enjoy the communication, and the insights we get into the development process and the state of the game. As a fan of 2K Sports, I can tell you it's far more than 2K Sports has ever deigned to provide to the community, especially in the football arena. 3 years after the release of APF2K8 and they still haven't given us information on exactly how the Player Abilities work, no patch to fix some of the easily fixable problems, and they even took down the league websites after telling us they would be back when they went down initially (the loss of which effectively killed the online community). As much as a dislike EA for screwing gamers over the NFL Exclusive licensing deal (yes, I know it's not EA's fault, but we'll agree to disagree on that topic for now), 2K Sports has shown themselves to be utterly indifferent to their fans as well, even on things that don't take much time/$$$ such as answering basic questions about their game. EA Sports have won points in the community / interaction arena for their football fans in my humble view, while 2K Sports seems to have gone out of their way to shun their football community.

Nothing should be posted after a Valderez post. He should be the "Role Model" for all the folks who have problems with the game. All of "complaining" posts should be worded and presented like Valderez's posts. If they were Ian would probably still be interacting with all of us. Never read anything personal from V, just plain constructive ideas. So for all of those who are at a lost for words on how to present a "complaint" click go find a Valderez post to grab inspiration.

[MJenness]

Quote: Originally Posted by SalutationsNJ

Nothing should be posted after a Valderez post. He should be the "Role Model" for all the folks who have problems with the game. All of "complaining" posts should be worded and presented like Valderez's posts. If they were Ian would probably still be interacting with all of us. Never read anything personal from V, just plain constructive ideas. So for all of those who are at a lost for words on how to present a "complaint" click go find a Valderez post to grab inspiration.

Ian BLOCKED Valderez...same as he has blocked me.

I will be the first to admit I tend to say things as I see 'em, and maybe that grinds some people the wrong way. But, as I said in my previous post, I looked back through my posts and responses to Ian, and I just don't get where he was coming from with his extreme defensiveness. Hell, we ALL make mistakes, but as my Dad always said, "own them" and do something differently next time.

IMO, I haven't seen Ian's willingness to admit to much of anything. THAT'S the part that seems to irritate people I think...he is NOT God in the flesh, he's just a man, same as most of us, who holds a title (just like many of us) and works to make as much money as he can (same as all of us). Yet, we ALL make mistakes...fess up to them and don't repeat them.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJenness

Ian BLOCKED Valderez...same as he has blocked me.

Well, I'm not exactly an angel here. At first I still complained about the License Deal (I'd have to go back and look at how much). It took me a bit to separate Ian from EA Sports management. So I was still part of the problem, and I told Ian I didn't blame him for blocking me. I'd say that 70%+ (obviously a rough estimate) of the negative feedback he received was due to the NFL Exclusive License deal. Quite honestly any person who puts themselves out as a rep of EA is going to get slammed for that licensing deal, so in a way it's almost a no win situation.

[roadman]

I think Valdarez is spot on when he said developers are shielded from the good, bad and ugly from consumers. Those hits usually go to CS and that is why CS has a high turnover rate.

Here is something I want to share that I experienced communicating with the Sr. Producer of HH Baseball at the time.

I was the connecting rod to the community/forum for the Sr. Producer from 3DO. He would never post in the forums.

We would develop questions about the game and he would respond to them throughout the course of game development. I noticed I was receiving those emails at 2 to 3 a.m in the morning. He was taking his "own" time at home and responding to the questions at all hours of the night. He was also married and expecting his first child.

He would tell me every so often he needs to stay away from the boards as they were a time waster and many of the post were filled with vengeance and hatred. Please keep in my he never personally posted on the board, it was always through me. The vengeance and hatred posts were all directed at the game and the company, no personal attacks. However, those posts that were filled with vengeance and hatred towards the company and the game were still putting a hole in his gut.

It was because he was personally involved in both areas.

Seven years later and nothing has changed, has it?

These two experiences are co-related. I feel if we want an EA developer on the boards, their needs to be constructive criticism not just personally, but with the game and the company.

Based on the two experiences, I doubt that would ever take place.

So, we go back to square 1 and we don't have developer interaction.

My preference would be to have developer interaction, but I agree with Valdarez, the NFL license deal is preventing that from happening.

[boooey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Your company buys out the competition all the time. I can point to several really good products they have ruined. (I bet you can too) Guys like us in the business world are used to dealing with customers, and their occasional vitriol. Game developers really are sheltered from it, unless they take it upon themselves to venture forth onto the forums, and then when they do it's a rude awakening. When you start your career and are exposed to it pretty much from year 1, you slowly learn to ignore the anger and focus on the problem. You also learn to turn a deaf ear to most things. Though I will say that I rarely had to deal with any personal attacks myself. Usually if a customer were interacting with me, they were utterly grateful to have such a high connection. Ian said via twitter that he didn't realize what he signed up for when he started interacting with the community. He had no idea he'd get the backlash for the NFL Exclusive Deal angst. At the same time, he didn't have experience handling customer criticism/anger (Ian even said he had me blocked, but while I criticized harshly at times, I can't find anywhere where I personally attacked in my posts, so the skin was thin to start), and to make things worse, many community members didn't appreciate the direct communication they had with an EA representative (something that is very hard to come by). I personally enjoy the communication, and the insights we get into the development process and the state of the game. As a fan of 2K Sports, I can tell you it's far more than 2K Sports has ever deigned to provide to the community, especially in the football arena. 3 years after the release of APF2K8 and they still haven't given us information on exactly how the Player Abilities work, no patch to fix some of the easily fixable problems, and they even took down the league websites after telling us they would be back when they went down initially (the loss of which effectively killed the online community). As much as a dislike EA for screwing gamers over the NFL Exclusive licensing deal (yes, I know it's not EA's fault, but we'll agree to disagree on that topic for now), 2K Sports has shown themselves to be utterly indifferent to their fans as well, even on things that don't take much time/$$$ such as answering basic questions about their game. EA Sports have won points in the community / interaction arena for their football fans in my humble view, while 2K Sports seems to have gone out of their way to shun their football community.

so tell me.. what would you rather have of these 2 scenarios?

1. 2K put out a great product, and less DEV interaction
or
2. EA put out the same ole half finished Madden every year, with DEV interaction and lots of hype blogs.

pretty easy answer for me.. enough of the excuses.. they just need to deliver a great (and complete) game already, and 90% of the hate will vanish into thin air..

[Pringles]

the dude got metacarpal from typing so much and had to take time off lol would you want to come back. i have been here not very long but i noticed everyone bashed madden for what it is not instead of looking at the big picture witch is i takes a 3 year cycle to get a game right it does not happen overnight and when he came here he was open to everything only to get bashed.

i think the most important thing to do is post your ideas on how to make the game better but do not expect replies from the development team. its like a girlfriend that broke up with you get over it. lol

[Segagendude]

I don't do the Twitter thing, but apparently you can follow Ian on there and ask questions and such....