Defensive Ends and OLB's

[parrothead]

Threads like this hurt my soul, this stuff sounds so good, yet so far away. Keep it up guys, it can't hurt.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

To play Devil's advocate, EVERY playaction is a long, deep animation that screws up blocking. I would like to see more flash fakes on PA.

Completely agree. I see the majority of pressure coming on play action passes.

[CreatineKasey]

Give us the speed rush! Give us the speed rush! Give us the speed rush!

*stomps hands onto table repeatedly*

[Kramer5150]

LBz,
As usual,you're spot on. This has been driving me nuts in Madden,and I'm at my wits end with this franchise.
Don't give me fancy screen shots,saying this or that is fixed,or any "fluff" features" or bullet points to market the game.

Give me proper football fundamentals,then I'll (as well it seems many others) be thrilled to death. I would love nothing more than seeing a true double team on Hampton,while Farrior shoots the "A" gap and nails Flacco....lol,or seeing Harrison rush upfield to disrupt the handoff causing a sack.

[ch46647]

Madden absolutely needs to incorporate the DE/OLB pass rush this year. Even if they dont have it pre-programmed into plays just make it an easy pre-play option to have our DE's/OLB rush UP the field so we can do it any time we feel there will definitely be a pass. That way, if the play is a run or a draw and we get burnt for a big gain we have only ourselves to blame.

Honestly, after last years debacle in the pass rush category I thought there would be no doubt Ian would have this put into Madden 11. So far from the small gameplay footage we have gotten it appears this was not even touched.

[LoostheMoos]

EA knows about all of this....LBZ has done a great job of illustrating it for YEARS now and he was there to tell them about it face to face.

He has shown that by MANUALLY controlling the rush ends (OLB or DE) that the game CAN show the desired kind of up-the-field, set-the-edge pass rush that many people have been calling for for years. He has also shown that the OT CAN react accordingly and attempt to go wide with the rush to establish a pocket. So whats the problem? The problem is the other side of the ball, or if you do not control of DL-man on defense its the whole thing! When the AI-controlled end still runs straight into the OT as a first option, then the game engine is not working correctly.

I remember last year several times seeing or hearing developers actually say "what do you mean by "engine is broken"?" Ian Cummings is one I KNOW has said it on more than one occasion. The contention was that Madden/NCAA do not have a single "engine", but rather they run on a series of coexisting systems that together form the "engine"...semantics I know, but I thought it was highly revealing last year coming directly from the dev team.

In this pass rush example, here are some of the factors that the game should more accurately portray:

1) awareness - a veteran or Pro-Bowl caliber player should ALWAYS (or 95% of the time anyway) execute the proper technique...they should do it without the human user having to do it for them!

2) situational effects - if a team is down and trying to force a TO, then the AI should KNOW this situation and even lowly rated players with poor awareness should be aggressively attacking the edge instead of running smack into the OT!

3) fatigue effects - if a player has been aggressively rushing the passer the entire game without replacing his ends or OLBs throughout the game, then by the 4th quarter, his team should be gassed and he should be almost helpless to generate a pass rush!

4) speed, agility, acceleration effects - this is one area that I cannot be sure how the game is going to react in M11/N11 yet...the locomotion changes SOUND like they will take all of this into account (a VERY good thing) but there is no indication that the AI-controlled players will accurately portray this!

(In fact, in the videos and comments people have made, I am feeling it WILL NOT be evidenced in AI-controlled players! That is one reason people say that while it does not LOOK like its working in videos, that you will FEEL it working when you play....if it only impacts the user-controlled players correctly, then that statement makes 100% perfect sense, the game should LOOK the same or very similar to previous iterations, but it would FEEL much different.)

It is the combination of these things, working in concert with the coaching decisions (inputs) of the users that make the "engine" go. The best analogy I can come up with at this point (and its probably pretty lame as analogies go!) is to working on a car. If there is an issue with the timing belt, but I spend all of my time changing the oil, then the basic issue goes unresolved. I may spend a lot of time and effort and even make a lot of mess in the process, but I have not fixed the car! EA seems to be spending all of their dev time every year on oil changes and what they need to do is change the timing belt. It is their apparent inability to understand this or to fix this that has many people, myself obviously included, frustrated with the state of the franchise 6 years into the current hardware generation...

[CardsFan52]

CO SIGN with all 7 pages. You guys said everything I wanted to say so lets just hope someone from EA is in here snooping around.

[kmart2180]

Kinda bummed to hear BEZO's #1 defensive thing wont be fixed this year, cause Im sure its something important to the game. I think we have been saying for years that this has been a problem. Oline/DLine interaction is just not up to par at all. And why is this not becoming a #1 priority when its a BIG part of fundemental football is beyond me.

Im a HUGE fan of defense (sometimes I play full season's of just controlling 1 defender aka P Willis/T Mays and just sim offense) But its true that the defense is becoming stale. I would love for next year to have a HUGE upgrade in this department. Stressing on more fundemental wrap tackles with allowing deflection hits. Sick of all the people near the ball not being able to do anything unless protak kicks on. When one of my cpu defenders is attempting a tackle I want to be able to add in on the hit EVERYTIME and not just fall to the floor like I hit a imaginary wall.

Would also love to see more deflection's or atleast attemps. WAY to many interception attempts IMO. Better zone coverages, better jams at the line, shading left or right, ect.....could go all day but Im sure everyone gets it. Defense could use a all-around fix. Hopefully when Madden 11 releases I can check a few of those off. (1 could dream)