Way Too Much Attention To The Casual

[Flamehead]

The "Madden must be tailored to cater to the casual" philosophy runs counter to the game's history.

What many choose to forget or ignore is that the reason Madden became the juggernaut that it is was because it was one of the few (if not only) NFL game that focused on realism/sim (as much as a console game could do).

Remember the story about how Madden refused to give his name to product until they made it 11 on 11 football? They had to go back to the drawing board and change it from 5 on 5 to 11 on 11. I'm sure the developers at the time thought 5 on 5 was much more "accessible" (not to mention easier to code). But they got it done.

The sales started to significantly drop when we went to the current-gen games and Ortiz and Co. decided to go all tourney with it, and it had no depth. But people were willing to make excuses for it.

So sales drop and EA thinks that in order to increase sales, it needs to be more accessible, aka, dumb it down. I believe history shows the opposite more likely to increase attention and reputation.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flamehead

The "Madden must be tailored to cater to the casual" philosophy runs counter to the game's history. What many choose to forget or ignore is that the reason Madden became the juggernaut that it is was because it was one of the few (if not only) NFL game that focused on realism/sim (as much as a console game could do). Remember the story about how Madden refused to give his name to product until they made it 11 on 11 football? They had to go back to the drawing board and change it from 5 on 5 to 11 on 11. I'm sure the developers at the time thought 5 on 5 was much more "accessible" (not to mention easier to code). But they got it done. The sales started to significantly drop when we went to the current-gen games and Ortiz and Co. decided to go all tourney with it, and it had no depth. But people were willing to make excuses for it. So sales drop and EA thinks that in order to increase sales, it needs to be more accessible, aka, dumb it down. I believe history shows the opposite more likely to increase attention and reputation.

I understand your point, but to better illustrate, Madden has had it's peaks and valleys from both sides of the fence. Madden wanted 11 vs 11 football, but was an ambulance on the field for every sprain, sim? Was hitting the C button on the Sega Genesis a sim feature? No, it wasn't. In those days, my college buddies and I would stay up till 3:00 am in the morning playing against each other, not because it was sim, but because it was fun.

Then, the pregame/halftime shows came in like James Brown and Summerall and Madden talking about the game before the kickoff. The presentation was increased, but play on the field was still more towards the casual side.

Then the LG models came in and Madden became more sim with sim like features on the field.

We know where we are today.

My whole point is the pendulum swings back and forth throughout the history of the game.
If the pendulum is on the downswing, you need to do something to get that swinging in the other direction.

[moneal2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flamehead

The "Madden must be tailored to cater to the casual" philosophy runs counter to the game's history. What many choose to forget or ignore is that the reason Madden became the juggernaut that it is was because it was one of the few (if not only) NFL game that focused on realism/sim (as much as a console game could do). Remember the story about how Madden refused to give his name to product until they made it 11 on 11 football? They had to go back to the drawing board and change it from 5 on 5 to 11 on 11. I'm sure the developers at the time thought 5 on 5 was much more "accessible" (not to mention easier to code). But they got it done. The sales started to significantly drop when we went to the current-gen games and Ortiz and Co. decided to go all tourney with it, and it had no depth. But people were willing to make excuses for it. So sales drop and EA thinks that in order to increase sales, it needs to be more accessible, aka, dumb it down. I believe history shows the opposite more likely to increase attention and reputation.

The thing that you have to remember is that gaming has changed since the days of the first madden or even for madden 2005. The Wii has changed the landscape of the gaming community. Most people now don't really care about the sim features they just care that it is Madden NFL and FUN to them.

[swiftychampleone]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I understand your point, but to better illustrate, Madden has had it's peaks and valleys from both sides of the fence. Madden wanted 11 vs 11 football, but was an ambulance on the field for every sprain, sim? Was hitting the C button on the Sega Genesis a sim feature? No, it wasn't. In those days, my college buddies and I would stay up till 3:00 am in the morning playing against each other, not because it was sim, but because it was fun. Then, the pregame/halftime shows came in like James Brown and Summerall and Madden talking about the game before the kickoff. The presentation was increased, but play on the field was still more towards the casual side. Then the LG models came in and Madden became more sim with sim like features on the field. We know where we are today. My whole point is the pendulum swings back and forth throughout the history of the game. If the pendulum is on the downswing, you need to do something to get that swinging in the other direction.

Wow, I remember those days when I was 10-12 years old playing Madden 92-94 just to see that madness of an ambulance coming on the field. Honestly, as much as a love "sim", there's a side of me that loves to injure players in the game and see them get carted off the field for kicks.

However, as I grew up (and while the technology improved in video gaming), I realized how important it was to make the games realistic. I think EA has to make a game where both audiences can enjoy. They need sales from the casual market as well as the hardcore market.

[beastwork]

have you good folks ever seen a bell curve? guess what part you live in. the part that doesn't matter lol

[lgxjames]

When we start talking casual gamer I think I'm beginning to understand what it really means, Ok I am a hardcore football guy...But I also buy racing games, I also buy hockey games and guess what...I wouldn't have a clue about the different mechanics of REAL racing, I wouldn't understand drifting (although I do, but I recently just found out) In hockey, I understand basics but don't try to get me to understand what a "overload" is...I play basic hockey until I can learn the REAL GAME OF HOCKEY, my man aren't out of position,

I'm not taking the defensive men and charging into the offensive zone cause I understand that's stupid... So when we talk Madden casual gamers, I think I'm a example of what a madden casual gamer is as I am to a hockey casual gamer. I get it, I understand it but I don't know the gritty details therefore it would be helpful to have something like "gameflow" in hockey...Even tho I'm stubborn and prefer to learn it on my own I still can say I would appreciate someone trying to help me understand it in game whether I use it or not...How else will you learn. I'm now going to disengage...I understand what they're doing now...

[SA1NT401]

Hardcore madden players are a mere fraction of the madden community (probably 30% if that) the CASUALS are the main focus.

Sucks honestly, as WE, the ones who have been with madde for the last 15++ yrs are the ones who got the franchise here in the 1st place.

Lil Joey and all his 12 yr old friends are the focus now.....Nothing we can do about it

[TreFacTor]

Quote: Originally Posted by LaW97

not enough attention to the core gamer i feel disrespected that havent put much emphasis on fixing the bugs in franchise mode the past 4 years. im pretty sure there are more of us that put in hours and hours into franchise than there are people complaining about spending an hour playing a game or having my 15 plays gameplanned. RFA needs a return. scouting and drafting needs improvement. ratings need to matter and so do coaching changes. i would still be playing madden 10 if franchise worked properly.

I agree 100 %
Core Gamer ===><=== Madden 11 "Gameflow" Gimmick