How Do You Feel About Gameflow/Gameplan Now?

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I think it works both ways. You should remember this one. About three years ago, I think Monday night football, Packers in Dallas. The Packers are down by 20 or 30 pts and Favre goes out injured. Rodgers comes in to replace Favre. Did the Packers hand the ball to Grant more or did they try to win the game with Rodgers arm? Rodgers darn near willed the Packers to victory. I think the Cowboys won by 10 pts at the end. Don't forget the great comeback by Frank Reich in the 90's with the Buffaloe Bills. Reich replaced the injured Jim Kelly and the came was called the greatest comeback in playoff history. I think the Bills were down by 24 pts at the half.

If you have the level of talent, or close to it, that can pull it off, then it's kind of a moot point, no need to change. Problem is, what do you do now with your GamePlan when it 'needs' to change?

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Chessmasters know the various moves and counters, and they try to execute them, on the fly, based on what's going on. They don't have someone making the call for them. It's not even remotely the same. They can, and do, change their plans, and they don't have someone else telling them which move to make. It's a flawed analogy. It's not even strategy, because you're not determining when one single play will be called. It's all going to be random, based soley on a 5 star rating. It's just a series of plays that randomly get called. Notice the word 'random' there. It's the play selection + calling the play at the right time that provide the strategy in a football game, and GameFlow/GamePlan takes that all out of your hands. Selecting the plays prior to the game start is more like picking your lottery numbers and hoping you get the right ones at the right time (hoping, not deciding) to pull off the win.

You were losing me there until the bolded part lol. I don't know where you were going with the first part, but the second part is the reason it's not a chess match IMO. It's all random. Chess is a thinking man's game. That's why the chess match term is used to describe the game of football. Because football is essentially the offensive coordinator trying to outwit the defensive coordinator or vice versa. When you start doing stuff randomly, you take any kind of thought out of it. That's what they're doing here so the chess match term will never apply when it comes this.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by splff3000

Chess is a thinking man's game. That's why the chess match term is used to describe the game of football. Because football is essentially the offensive coordinator trying to outwit the defensive coordinator or vice versa. When you start doing stuff randomly, you take any kind of thought out of it. That's what they're doing here so the chess match term will never apply when it comes this.

But that's the thing: they're not calling plays randomly LOL. People are throwing the word random around in order to discredit the feature. When in fact, everyone knows that it's calling plays situationally.

If you (not you in particular boss ) don't want to use the feature, then cool. Don't use it. Why belittle with buzzwords [Ask Madden 2.0, random, etc] to make it seem as if it has little to no appeal?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

If you have the level of talent, or close to it, that can pull it off, then it's kind of a moot point, no need to change. Problem is, what do you do now with your GamePlan when it 'needs' to change?

I guess it becomes a guessing match.

No one knew Rodgers or Frank Reich would pull that off. If you don't try, you won't know.

Heck, I lost Rodgers for the whole season in week 10 in Madden. Did I change my game plan? Yes, but it was plays already in the Packer play book. I just dinked and dunked with Flynn the rest of the way, didn't try to throw it deep. There are a lot of WC plays in the Packers play book that is suited for a Matt Flynn.

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

But that's the thing: they're not calling plays randomly LOL. People are throwing the word random around in order to discredit the feature. When in fact, everyone knows that it's calling plays situationally. If you (not you in particular boss ) don't want to use the feature, then cool. Don't use it. Why belittle with buzzwords [Ask Madden 2.0, random, etc] to make it seem as if has little to no appeal?

I'm not going to argue with you because you have seen the feature in action. I'll tell you the way that I see it and you can correct me if I'm wrong. Enlighten me on this feature.

The way I understand it, it works like this. You set up plays into a certain situation. For this example, I'll use the situation of 3rd and long. You can set up 15 plays to be called when you're in 3rd and long in game. You then weigh those plays, using 5 stars, to affect how often a certain play or plays is called. The game will look at those plays and then call one of the plays in the playbook leaning more towards the one that I favored by giving them higher star ratings.

If everything that I've said is true then it's random. All you're doing is affecting how random it is. Think about it working like the NBA lottery. In the NBA, the teams with the worst record get more ping-pong balls in the pool. When it comes time to pick though, it's still random. The same thing is happening here. Those plays with the higher star rating just have more ping-pong balls in the pool of plays.

The way I see it, for my 3rd and long situation, I can pick 14 pass plays and 1 goalline run play for my 15 plays. If at anytime that goaline play is called on 3rd and long then it is random. In fact, I would really like to hear why you say it is NOT random because everything that I see points to it being random.

[jlukes]

Any way to alter formations subs from a menu screen (specifically in Franchise mode)?

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

No one knew Rodgers or Frank Reich would pull that off. If you don't try, you won't know.

I disagree. (surprise ) These players teams knew what they were capable of because they watch them in practice every day. Just like there was a buzz about Tony Romo before he had really taken the field for the Cowboys. The teams knew whether the player was capable of playing within the gameplan or not.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

The issue people are having is that it's an incomplete feature for those that make use of packages and formation subs. It's advertised to those type of consumers, but if you want to continue using packages and such, you have to go back to the full playbook system for the play call. So you move away from the point in using game plan. That's not too much of a problem, but then it's viewed as wasted resource time when more important issues in the game could've been addressed if this feature couldn't be implemented completely. It's just like Online Franchise last year. With no salary cap, contracts and CPU trade logic, it's a incomplete feature because you can't make use of what franchise mode is all about. These are both cases where the features should be held off until the following year when they are more rounded out and have the essentials ingredients. Because it would be like making a meal for dinner, but missing a few key ingredients that makes it have taste or at least be edible. When you're missing those, the dish isn't done right. This feature was done to make the games go by quicker and make the game easier for the novice football gamers. That makes sense and I have no issue with that since Madden got have a large market and gain more sales. However if they are going to proclaiming as a hardcore feature for those gamers that make use of packages and formation subs which they advertised as hardcore gamer features in the past, then My Gameplan selections have to include those tools. Otherwise the feature is largely useless to them varying from sometimes to majority of the time. I wonder whats the percentage of Madden users that make use of packages and formation subs. I figure the impact of these missing features for gameplan won't have an effect to a heavy percentages of Madden gamers, which is why they fly with getting this done half-full this year.

Online franchise last was defintely "incomplete" and was clearly not as advertised but I dont think you can put Gameplan in that category yet.

I understand if you dont want to use Gameplan because you like doing manual package subs in game but that doesnt make it "incomplete",IMO. Gameplan/Gameflow was advertised as a feature to speed up online games and let the gamer focus on on-field execution.Even without manual in-game subs,it still has a chance to deliver this as long as we can make preset package subs when creating our gameplan.

I think the aspect the devs are saying should appeal to hardcore gamers is being able to adjust the gameplan to your liking even the CPUs' for franchise guys.The casual gamer probably wont even bother to create a gameplan and has Gameflow to have their plays scripted for them but Gameplan is geared towards more hardcore gamers,makes sense to me.

I went back and read the transcript to be sure and the dev said when playing an online game,if the both players choose to use gameplan/gameflow,then they can NOT use traditional play calling that game.If thats true,thats good news for online gaming,IMO.Like I said in an earlier post,most players I have played online use a select number of plays they like,so its just a 1 hr+ game of money play vs money play.Gameplan,by speeding these games up,will hopefully reduce quits and intentional disconnects.

Im not hating on any of you gamers that dont want to use Gameplan,Im glad its optional.But dont run the feature in the ground because it doesnt fit your particular style of play or imply that some of us are niave or fooled just because we are willing to give it try.

On a side note,its sad that EA/Madden has treated its hardcore fan base so poorly with its next-gen products.I believed Madden 10 to be a upgrade and steered the series in the right direction but I probably wouldnt be considered a "hardcore" Madden fan.I played NFL 2k-NFL 2k5 exclusively until the exclusive NFL rights deal.I probably only liked Madden 10 so much because it reminded me of NFL 2k5 in presentation.

I think the disappointed hardcore Madden fans that have been riding with EA/Madden for years or even decades,are the people who have the hardest time being optimistic about new features.