Do people realize how good this game is Human vs Human on All-Madden?

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

It's a completely different game than All-Pro. The things alot of people are complaining about are non-issues on All-Madden. The awareness is alot higher and it means more realistic play. Players pretty much do what they're suppose to do. Offensive success is based on calling the right play at the right time. Not exploits.

I don't want to be a jerk, but this post is so full of fail. I will agree that if you play with friends who want to play sim, thne you can enjoy Madden, but no ammount of sliders [difficulty is just a group of pre-set sliders] is going to fix the core bugs and issues like pursuit angles, blocking bugs, psychic man coverage, etc.

I am glad you enjoy the game though.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

If that is Valdarez's point, I'm left to assume that people are asking for EA to make corrections for user mistakes. Help me out if I'm wrong... I'm beginning to think that 85% of the so-called 'flaws' in this game are really USER MISTAKES that they want EA to correct. To which I say, EA can't correct our mistakes. Nor should they be expected to. Later

What he means is that the way that Madden handles passing is flawed and hurts not only the offense but the defense.

He wants route based passing where the thrown pass is based on the route and timing to a greater extent. How Madden does it, is that allows you to be successful, sometimes unsuccessful, by having the thrown pass based off of the direction the receiver is going for the most part. What is the point of having patterns then?

If the WR is running an out, but the QB is pressured and throws it early, the QB should still throw the pass outside to where he thinks the WR should be given the route. So if if the WR hasn't broken yet, the pass will be thrown towards the sideline, where it will fall incomplete or the WR may be able to just get to it or it could be intercepted. In Madden, in this scenario, the ball would be thrown like it's a Go, because the WR is still running straight up the field. If the first example ends in an INT, that's Football. If the second one does, that's the game causing it, not you. And this goes for the D as well. If you were to complete that improvised Go route, it makes it hard to play D when you do everything right, and get pressure, but it doesn't matter because no matter what, the QB will almost always throw the ball where the WR can catch it, whether it was how the play was drawn up or not.

It may not seem like a huge issue, but this is why there are few passes that ever hit the ground in Madden or sail out of bounds. Just about everything is a catch, drop, pass defense, or INT, but hardly bad throws.

You might think that you can throw timing passes in Madden, but you really can't. The window to do so is so small that if there is some kind of double move in the route, the direction he was going at the time you pass is the direction that the pass will go, regardless of whether there are more moves after wards. This happens the overwhelming majority of the time. There are patterns that are exceptions to a certain extent like hooks, but those are basically straight line routes any way so not much difference when you release it.

Precision passing is also an illusion. The AI is much more in control of where the pass will end up then what direction you are holding the stick. Don't believe me? Throw a crossing route and hold the stick in the direction that would make the pass be behind the receiver. Hold it in that direction for a long time prior to try and throw the pass so far behind that it falls incomplete. Or even so far in front that it falls incomplete. The majority of the time the pass will still be on target. If I can't even purposely throw behind someone with precision passing, how can I call it anything other than an illusion? With route based passing, this would never happen because if I was pressured and threw it too early, then it would be overthrown because the pass is tied to the route and not the receiver. Conversely, if I held it too long, the pass would be behind the receiver. Now I'm not saying that the QB shouldn't be able to make an adjustment, but that is where the precision pass should come in. To try and correct for errors in timing and coverage, but if the ball is gonna go to the receiver anyway and towards the direction he is running for the most part, then that makes for a bad passing game mechanic for both the O and the D in my opinion and makes precision passing useless.

This is what I think that Valdarez meant. Obviously every bad play is not the game's fault, but there is a definite framework built into the game that makes it very hard to not make mistakes, regardless of your Football acumen.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

A bunch of stuff I agree with.

I just wanted to point to a Madden NFL 10 blog from last year talking about how passes work in Madden 10 compared to prior versions. While they improved over the "Dart board" with the cone of accuracy in Madden 10, I don't understand why they didn't take the time last year to just do it right the first time instead of wasting time on a "bad idea."

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

When I have trouble (and I have) is when my 'timing' is off and I throw too early. In those cases the ball sails in the direction the receiver is running instead of where the route is supposed to go.

That right there is the problem. Madden 'only' throws in the direction the WR is running.

Here's an example of route based passing if you're unfamiliar with it.

[huskerwr38]

that would be so awesome if Madden could implement something like route based passing. Btw, in APF2k8, the sound effects are horrible, I've never heard the sound of a ball hitting a person's hands. In the game it sounds like they are bashing two pieces of wood together.

Anyways, sometimes I feel that Madden does have route based passing, especially if I loft the ball. However, other times the QB will throw it to where the receiver is, especially on double move like a flag route, and not where he's suppose to be. This is highly frustrating. Again, ALL routes in the NFL are timing based, how could they not implement this?

[TNT713]

Valdarez,

Thanks for the vid illustrating route based passing (I'll post my own in a moment). Oddly, it is very familiar with it because it's similar to how I pass the ball in Madden. Except for the posts and slants, I'm able to place passes similar to how they appear here with the difference being that I have to wait a half a step longer than you did in the video so i don't throw too early in the receiver's stem.

The technique I use comes in 4 parts.

Dropback - whatever my drop is 3, 5, or 7 steps
Set - Putting the left analog in neutral for a split second
Step - Point the stick to the area I want to throw the ball
Read & Delivery- Picking my receiver and throwing with Pressure and speed on the button to get trajectory and velocity.

On routes like hooks, if I throw the ball as my 5th step hits it's too early. The ball sails over my receivers head. If I set after my drop for just long enough to let the stick go and acquire it again, I can throw before my receiver starts to turn and hit him in the chest 8 times out of 10 before he makes his break.

To respond to Only1LT's comments...

- I have been both screwed and bailed out when throwing too early in the receiver's stem.
- I also soo alot of throws sail out of bounds. I'm guessing more than normal because it's at least 3-5 a game for me (or my opponent).
- I was never a fan of precision passing... I use Read and Lead concepts instead.

Bout to edit a video I just made in practice mode... BRB.

Later

[bprioleau]

Quote: Originally Posted by beastwork

the lack of man align and broken flat coverage make the game unplayable in any mode, against any opponent.

Amen brotha, amen.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Valdarez, Thanks for the vid illustrating route based passing (I'll post my own in a moment). Oddly, it is very familiar with it because it's similar to how I pass the ball in Madden. Except for the posts and slants, I'm able to place passes similar to how they appear here with the difference being that I have to wait a half a step longer than you did in the video so i don't throw too early in the receiver's stem. The technique I use comes in 4 parts. Dropback - whatever my drop is 3, 5, or 7 steps Set - Putting the left analog in neutral for a split second Step - Point the stick to the area I want to throw the ball Read & Delivery- Picking my receiver and throwing with Pressure and speed on the button to get trajectory and velocity. On routes like hooks, if I throw the ball as my 5th step hits it's too early. The ball sails over my receivers head. If I set after my drop for just long enough to let the stick go and acquire it again, I can throw before my receiver starts to turn and hit him in the chest 8 times out of 10 before he makes his break. To respond to Only1LT's comments... - I have been both screwed and bailed out when throwing too early in the receiver's stem. - I also soo alot of throws sail out of bounds. I'm guessing more than normal because it's at least 3-5 a game for me (or my opponent). - I was never a fan of precision passing... I use Read and Lead concepts instead. Bout to edit a video I just made in practice mode... BRB. Later

It's not the same thing. Madden doesn't have route based passing. It only throws the ball based on the direction that receiver is running. I didn't use Max Passing to do the videos you saw above, and if you watch, I began the throw up to 5+ steps before they began their cuts. You can't do that in Madden.

The lack of route based passing is only part of the problem. The biggest problem is the ability to throw/catch any time. It's the primary reason they had to program so many cheats into their defensive AI.