Madden's developers vs other developers (comparison)

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I understand what you are saying and agree to some extent, but then, how to you explain 10's marketing and asking for a wish list at OS over a year ago. Accordingly, a good chunk of the wish list made it into Madden 10. That is what is baffling to me. They took a whole new different approach this year and I think it has to do with declining or stagnant sales.

You make a good point and I can't explain it either. I'm baffled too.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I understand what you are saying and agree to some extent, but then, how to you explain 10's marketing and asking for a wish list at OS over a year ago. Accordingly, a good chunk of the wish list made it into Madden 10. That is what is baffling to me.

I think based on some of their public comments, they were left a bit in shock by how much they did put in based on community feedback and yet how much the communities still complained. I can't say they didn't take the feedback here into account, because most of my wish list wound up in Madden 10, and I bet a lot of other people could say the same.

But here is the thing that I feel like Tiburon is not considering... the communities complained because, although those things were addressed, the quality of a number of parts just wasn't very good. It's not enough to just address it, it has to be high quality too.

I could get very specific and point out how something they added was done in a weird way that took it in a bad direction, but that post would be many pages long. I'm just coming to accept that this particular team approaches a lot of parts in a way I simply don't agree with, and I don't agree with them because they say they want to simulate the NFL or a broadcast but do something that totally negates that concept. It's not their passion I question, I truly believe the key people are passionate enough. It's just the philosophy of giving you something from real life and then putting some sort of artistic spin on it that I disagree with. That's what I question, not their passion.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

They took a whole new different approach this year and I think it has to do with declining or stagnant sales.

I remember last year Phil said here on the boards that an approach change would take place if Madden 10's sales weren't there. You have to like the honesty. Well, we know now that Madden 10's sales were in trouble for a while and only late promo's and beefed up marketing efforts helped it get ahead of Madden 09's sales (I heard this straight from the devs themselves). So it's no surprise at all.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Oooops. I want to be the first to say I'm sorry to the person who made this thread. I thought it was going to be locked right on site because threads like this usually do get the ax. But I will be the first to say sorry. I was wrong. But back on topic. I think Ian and crew deeply cares about the fans and all. They try give the fans what they want most of the time. But sometime it does not happen. I just feel some people jump all over Ian and his crew case because somethings in the game ain't right to their likings and all. But I have to say for Ian and crew first year last year. They did a great job of cleaning up the last EA madden crew mess they made. Now Ian and crew is getting madden back to a respectable level. I know alot of people are tired of the promises here and there. But it takes time. I feel EA and Madden is slowly but surely trying to do their work and giving fans what they want but doing what the NFL wants them to do aswell. Why you are trying to compare Madden crew with other Dev teams with other games. Remember that unlike other games, EA and Madden crew have to work with the fans but also has to work within the NFL guidelines of what can be in madden and not. Like Tattoos and helmets been knocked off. See they have to balance it out between the fans and the NFL rules why other game companies can do just about anything they want. But overall I believe EA Dev cares about the fans and they are really trying their best to give fans what they want, but at a slower pace.

[PhillyJim76]

This is not a bashing of anyone!

I think that the great divide will always be caused by the Madden fans (who play 1 game from August to the Super Bowl) and the programmers (who seem, from their tweets to be more gamers (fifa, red dead redemption, etc). I don't think they worry about the minutae of the game like we do.

Also, in this economy, EA is doing everything they can to maximize profits. It is just the way things are now.

[ProjectSRT]

Quote: Originally Posted by PhillyJim76

I think that the great divide will always be caused by the Madden fans (who play 1 game from August to the Super Bowl) and the programmers (who seem, from their tweets to be more gamers (fifa, red dead redemption, etc). I don't think they worry about the minutae of the game like we do. .

I think you just nailed it. Its something i have noticed as well.

Its not them not worrying about the minutia tho, the fact is, sports gamers aren't real gamers. They don't have an understanding as to what it takes to create a good video game and they don't understand why things do and do not work in games. No matter how realistic Madden becomes, it will NEVER rival real life and sports gamers dont understand this in any fashion. You will always see someone complaining about AI logic in the sports titles because they dont understand that we just dont have the tech to rival true human logic and wont for quite some time(at least in video games). No matter how much of a simulation a video game becomes, it will still be a 'video game' and those who, like you said, play one game from Aug to the Superbowl', just dont understand that.

[marktwain77]

It's important to note that I think you can be a VERY GOOD programmer/developer, yet still not make the best football game you could.

That's what I think is happening here. I'm sure the guys on the Madden team are passionate and professional about their JOBS, but are they equally passionate about NFL Football?

[N@X_WiZaRD]

Quote: Originally Posted by marktwain77

I would buy ANY Harmonix product sight-unseen. Why? Because they have EARNED my complete trust by consistently putting out top-notch products that are polished, really fun, and have incredible replay value.

You want to know why this is the case? It's because Harmonix just recently garnered world-wide success in 2005 with Guitar Hero. They really didn't have a huge following prior to 2005, so they were absolutely required to be as innovative as possible to guarantee sales. And they seem to still have this drive.

EA's Madden, on the other hand, has been here for almost 20 years. They've already captured the attention of their audience so they don't really feel they need to radically innovate every year to achieve success. Their astounding proclamation that they're not improving franchise "because it would take too much resources" is proof-positive of this. They are the quintessential status-quo of video game football, which essentially means they can dictate the progress of their game without really jeopardizing sales.

[lolfalconsbeatu]

honestly, I think Tiburon just made a critical mistake from jump when they rushed that first Madden for Next-Gen.

After that first team unsuccessfully produced a rushed game, they were left with literally fixing all of there issues.

Heres some facts:
-Xbox 360 was released November 22, 2005 in US/Canada

-Madden For Xbox 360 was released November 16, 2005

-Madden for PS2/Xbox was released August 5, 2005 (like it regularly does for the most part).

My point is, Madden had NO BUSINESS rushing a November 16th release, all because a new system was coming out. Talk about a 'watered down' product...does anyone remember what it was like playing Madden '06 for the Xbox 360??? I'll only speak for myself, but I went right back to my Xbox/PS2 because I literally couldn't take it with the lack of features, horrible mechanics/horrible knowledge compared to a game that came out 2 months before it.

Back to the OP, I honestly don't think it was a lack of interest from the Dev's standpoint, or just a love for the sport because Madden was never perfect and neither was 2k, but the rush of just putting out a product messed up Tiburon still to this day, trying to fix and cover up stuff from the first made in '05.

They needed a full year to make up for the year they originally rushed through, and thats what they are doing now.