What do we gamers want?

[RaiderKtulu]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I'm for anything that makes it more realistic, like a realistic presentation and especially features around the game (franchise).

...and this is where opinions will diverge.

Who says a broadcast presentation is the most "realistic" way to play a game of football? Heck, the real networks don't even keep all of the same features each year. An NBC game this year is going to look different from one 5 years ago.

It seems to me that a broadcast presentation is all about...wait for it... WATCHING a game. Is that really what you want? Don't get me wrong, I totally understand (and agree with) wanting a weekly wrap up show with stats, news and highlights during franchise mode to keep you updated on the rest of the league.... but that doesn't mean the game I play should necessarily look like the one I watched on real TV 3 days beforehand. Does it?

I personally find that playing the game is enough. I don't really care for most announcers during the real games as it is... so canned dialog gets really old really quick... and I don't feel I need to be told what I just did in a game I'm controlling. Even halftime shows seem rather pointless... I'd much rather use halftime for strategic adjustment, especially if I happened to be using ask mad...errr gameflow.

I just don't get why people need a TV broadcast to enjoy playing.

[Exonerated]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

It's EA's game, they don't need to have: Gang Tackling. A Pocket for Passing. Acceleration Player Ratings.....etc, etc, etc. Doesn't mean the game should not have these. I'm for anything that makes it more realistic, like a realistic presentation and especially features around the game (franchise).

Presentation is a artistic style choice. What you mentioned are core fundamental football issues. Those definitely need to be 'realistic'

EA has artistic license to present madden in what they feel is the best looking.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu

It seems to me that a broadcast presentation is all about...wait for it... WATCHING a game. Is that really what you want?

I would like the NFL football game to come as close to an actual football game as can reasonably be expected.

Quote: Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu

I personally find that playing the game is enough. I don't really care for most announcers during the real games as it is... so canned dialog gets really old really quick. Even halftime shows seem rather pointless... I'd much rather use halftime for strategic adjustment, especially if I happened to be using ask mad...errr gameflow. I just don't get why people need a TV broadcast to enjoy playing.

I'm not into this stuff as much either, and I will enter through a lot of it, but it does add a great deal to the NFL experience.

Now Franchise/Dynasty stuff is a different story. I get bored with Sports games w/o it.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by Exonerated

Presentation is a artistic style choice. What you mentioned are core fundamental football issues. Those definitely need to be 'realistic' EA has artistic license to present madden in what they feel is the best looking.

Ea has articstic license to present these "core fundamental football issues" in what they feel is best for their bottom line. It's there artistic choice on how the game plays. They don't "definitely need to be realistic". We WANT them to be realistic.

Salary caps, accurate rosters and practice squad, realistic drafting and free agent signings, training camp schedules, realistic progression, coaches teaching abilities, etc, etc, etc, are "core fundamental football issues". These definitely need to be realistic, but EA seems to have plenty of artistic license here. It's there game, they can do what ever they want.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu

...and this is where opinions will diverge. Who says a broadcast presentation is the most "realistic" way to play a game of football? Heck, the real networks don't even keep all of the same features each year. An NBC game this year is going to look different from one 5 years ago. It seems to me that a broadcast presentation is all about...wait for it... WATCHING a game. Is that really what you want? Don't get me wrong, I totally understand (and agree with) wanting a weekly wrap up show with stats, news and highlights during franchise mode to keep you updated on the rest of the league.... but that doesn't mean the game I play should necessarily look like the one I watched on real TV 3 days beforehand. Does it? I personally find that playing the game is enough. I don't really care for most announcers during the real games as it is... so canned dialog gets really old really quick... and I don't feel I need to be told what I just did in a game I'm controlling. Even halftime shows seem rather pointless... I'd much rather use halftime for strategic adjustment, especially if I happened to be using ask mad...errr gameflow. I just don't get why people need a TV broadcast to enjoy playing.

It's not that we need it to enjoy actually playing, it's just that it makes the overall experience more enjoyable. It also doesn't help that other games have nailed this long ago, and we find it unacceptable that Madden is still so far behind.

There are a number of approaches they can take. They can try the at-the-game approach... well, they did that for 3 years, it was awful and had a very low public opinion. Or you can try the on-the-field approach... well, BB did that and, well, gamers aren't receiving that too well. So it brings up the question; which approach has worked the best and has had the highest public ratings?

It's impossible to forget that the sports games of this time with the absolute highest public opinion and ratings all had the best presentation and it was full broadcast style, not some strange artistic twist. People will never stop talking about MLB The Show, NBA 2K and NFL 2K. It's not simply because those games played well, it's because the presentation was/is the real deal. You hear more talk about the presentation in those games than anything else. People consider those products as the GOAT's. I can't see how any Madden this generation will be remembered like that.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

This is thee most important thing you said... I'm not going to bury the team because I do have a respect for those guys. But I'm left scratching my head at presentation from a broadcast standpoint. I can't really point to M11 b/c presentation didn't appear to be where the emphasis was placed this year as far as development. But damn, presentation was a back of the box feature last year. And it still fell flat. M10 is a perfect example of them doing their own thing instead of replicating the perfection that is a TV broadcast. This year, while not adding much, have continued to build upon their own thing. Take a look at some of the stat banners: banners IRL don't give lengthy sentences i.e. Thomas Jones has 4 carries and averaging 6 yards per carry. No! We get something straight to the point as: Carries Yards Avg 4 24 6 Little things like that give me the impression that they aren't following TV broadcasts to a T. They're caught up on taking aspects of real broadcasts and spicing it up with their own flavor. Ugh...

I've been holding off on throwing the team under the bus, but so far I'm not impressed, and your sentiment on it falling flat is exactly where I'm at right now. They are adding feature, after feature, after feature and they are mediocre solutions at best. In 2+ years since Ian has taken over they have yet to 'wow' us once, or deliver a top drawer experience in any of the new features that we have asked for in the game. I'll hold off on my final decision until I have M11 in my hands, but right now I'm leaning towards Tiburon simply lacking the talent to put out the quality that gamers are looking for in a NFL title.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

But right now I'm leaning towards Tiburon simply lacking the talent to put out the quality that gamers are looking for in a NFL title.

To their credit, the presentation is better than I thought it was. After watching more of the Redskins vs. Cowboys footage, it does seem to flow nicely and the stat banners are more frequent (yes!). Still, when making the comparison to an authentic TV broadcast, there's still something left to be desired on the part of Madden. But it's up to those guys (the devs) to stop trying to put their own stamp on presentation and precisely follow the already sound examples set before them.

[canes21]

I just had a huge post and accidentally went back a page and lost everything I typed..

In short, I think this poll shows that it is very clear what we want. We don't want EA to do it their way because honestly their way isn't that great. We want to see presentation that is realistic and believable. I don't care if it is ESPN presentation or EA Sports Network presentation. As long as it looks, feels, and sounds realistic I will be happy.

College Hoops 2k8 has some of the best presentation out of any basketball game even surpassing NCAA 10 in my opnion. The thing is, it didn't have an ESPN license, or a CBS license. It used the 2k Sports Network. But it didn't do thing its own way. When a replay came on, it was from an angle you would see on TV. When the weekly recap show came on every Sunday, it didn't do things its way. It was like a real TV broadcast and showed us what we wanted to see and what we would see on a real TV broadcast. When stat banners came up, it didn't say, "Jack McClinton has shot the ball 10 times and has made 8 of those buckets for a total of 24 points."

The banner looked like a real banner that ESPN or CBS would use. It wasn't structured with sentences, it used numbers and abbreviations much like a real stat banner on a real TV broadcast.

I don't think it would be too hard for EA to realize what we want and do it. In fact, I would think it would be much easier to copy a broadcast than to try and think of ways to "change broadcasting forever". EA, you don't need to show a replay from the ear hole of my DTs helmet. Show me the replay of the sack from a broadcast angle(s). And we don't need something saying, "Clinton Portis has ran the ball 12 times for a total of 200 yards." Show us this

Att - Yards - TDs
12 - 200 - 3

Licensing ESPN will not fix the issues we have if you are just going to still do things your way. I am not going to lie, NCAA 11 has nice presentation this year, but those replay angles are just terrible. They were a terrible design choice. EA didn't need to do them at all. Copying replay angles that we see every Saturday would have just been fine.

If EA took a step back and saw that they were not doing it right and looked at other games like NFL 2k5, MLB the Show, NBA 2k10, and even their own with NCAA 10 they would see what good presentation is like in video games. It is realistic presentation with real replay angles, great commentary, etc. It isn't fluff or glamor, its just realism that makes it. Presentation isn't much different from gameplay. The more realisitc the better it will be.