Presentation Styles? What does this mean?

[Netherscourge]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

In theory, I 100% agree with you. Locomotion is huge and could single handedly fix many of Madden's gameplay problems. However, in practice, this isn't the case. To me locomotion is somewhat improved, but not by much. They didn't go anywhere near the lengths that they should have. At least from what I have seen in the NCAA demo to this point.

I don't think Locomotion will do much of anything to improve the gameplay. It simply a momentunm-based animation for the players that still look artificial and clunky.

The player models don't react and interact realistically in the first place - why should anyone get excited about them accelarating and decelerating when they still look strange and robotic?

If anything, it'll finally give Acceleration ratings a purpose to be in the game as more then just a fake number to affect a player's value in a CPU-controlled draft.

(Sorry I'm so pessimistic. I'm just tired of waiting for EA to make a decent football game. Locomotion, Pro-Tak, etc... they're wasting all of our time just adding these "features" to an outdated animation-based engine.)


EDIT - they've been struggling with acceleration/deceleration for years with Madden. We're talking about basic on-the-field player movement and every other sports game has it down pretty good - but for some reason, EA can't get NFL football players to move like they do in real life.

That reason is the engine itself. The players move around the field as if they are on an invisible, floating disc - and their collision is based on their discs bumping into another player's disc. So with that visual, they try to implement locomotion... the player on the disc has to somehow synch up with the momentum they're trying to simulate and still look like they're actually moving based on a center of gravity. It's not working IMO. It never has in Madden. It always winds up looking like the players are on some strange swivel and their arms/hand/legs never seem to flow loosely, like they did in the 2K games when a player juked or came to a sudden stop.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Unfortunately, I was late on the scene with the 2k games. I compare the previous versions of NCAA to the current version and same with Madden. To me, locomotion in the NCAA demo is so much improved from last years demo, it is a huge step forward for the series. I don't think you can deny that. Since I didn't get much playing time with the other games, hard for me to compare. I think it's great you can compare and leads me to believe I missed out on some good gaming.

I can and will deny that lol. It is improved, but to me it's a small one. Maybe because I have played 2K I am minimizing some, but if I am it is very little. Don't want to derail the thread, but the bottom line is that from what I have seen thus far, there is minimal foot planting added and it happens more so when you are going at slow speeds, which makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. When you are at top speed you can just zig zag all over the place. Yes the player leans (big whoop) when you change direction, but there is no foot plant and no loss (at least not perceptible to me) of speed. It still moves very floaty and it does not look like you are actually running.

The running animations are improved though I will say. Not great but you won't hear me complain about them anymore. But to me they totally dropped the ball on locomotion, which doesn't mean that it isn't improved. Not saying that at all, just saying that they did not push the envelope nearly enough. When you tell me that you are scrapping something and putting a new loco system that is supposed to be award winning from what the FIFA dudes say, when I play it I should be blown away and say now this is what I have been missing. I didn't do that at all. I said ok this feels a little better but... lol.

I've seen much better and I'm not impressed. Sorry.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Netherscourge

I don't think Locomotion will do much of anything to improve the gameplay. It simply a momentunm-based animation for the players that still look artificial and clunky. The player models don't react and interact realistically in the first place - why should anyone get excited about them accelarating and decelerating when they still look strange and robotic? If anything, it'll finally give Acceleration ratings a purpose to be in the game as more then just a fake number to affect a player's value in a CPU-controlled draft. (Sorry I'm so pessimistic. I'm just tired of waiting for EA to make a decent football game. Locomotion, Pro-Tak, etc... they're wasting all of our time just adding these "features" to an outdated animation-based engine.) EDIT - they've been struggling with acceleration/deceleration for years with Madden. We're talking about basic on-the-field player movement and every other sports game has it down pretty good - but for some reason, EA can't get NFL football players to move like they do in real life. That reason is the engine itself. The players move around the field as if they are on an invisible, floating disc - and their collision is based on their discs bumping into another player's disc. So with that visual, they try to implement locomotion... the player on the disc has to somehow synch up with the momentum they're trying to simulate and still look like they're actually moving based on a center of gravity. It's not working IMO. It never has in Madden.

Lol. I agree. You forgot to mention that players also have force fields around them though lol.

Maybe my expectations were too high because they said they were using a new loco engine. One that everyone swears by (I've never played FIFA. Not a Soccer fan but maybe I will download it to compare) so I had higher hopes that it would be much improved than if they had just said that they tweaked the old loco engine.

In any event I will take it over what we had but I'm still disappointed.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnprestonevans

now we need some clarification on presentation IMO.

You're right -- no need for us to derail your thread. Sorry about that. Below will be my last comment on it.

As far as clarification on presentation, all you need to do is watch one of the several videos that are out bro. I'm all for hope and optimism, but I think this is a case of what you see is what you get. Sure, the vids are inconclusive and I'm sure they have tweaked some things that have not yet been mentioned. But I think your yearn for blown out presentation is clouding your judgement in this instance.

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Sure, that's allowed in NCAA. Like I said in another thread, a lot of people hate 2K because you could not jerk the joystick all over the place and shake like a crack addict to try and fake someone out like you can in Madden. Go from all the way in one direction to all the way in the opposite in 2K and you better be prepared to have a serious penalty in speed and momentum dealt to you.

Well, just to clarify, I'm not one of those guys who hates 2K. In fact, I played 2K5 religiously until M10. 2K5 had locomotion programmed I guess you could say and it felt great. But in APF, I just feel as though they went too far with it. I don't want to jump all over the field like a crack addict lol, but I don't want the game to feel sluggish and unresponsive neither. Like you said, different strokes...