Where's the Help?

[sois]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

I get that there is alot more than Madden going on at OS... There's tons of stuff on other sites about other games too... Personally, I'm a football guy first, Madden guy 2nd. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll NEVER read most of the forums here (or anywhere else) due to sheer lack of interest in anything other than Madden. Of the games I play that aren't named Madden, I have yet to visit a message board for either of them. Don't see that changing in the next 100 years.

Does not compute. If you area football guy first, you would be all over the NCAA, Backbreaker, 2K forums at OS as well. Some of those games have better on the field gamplay if you cared to discover.

[Valdarez]

So you've written thousands of topics on strategy, never posted one here, and are complaining about the lack of strategy posts in Madden on the site? I haven't seen many on the other Madden sites that truly discussed football strategy over game strategy (not that that's always a bad thing). Problem with most of the Madden sites is they show ways that exploit the AI over how to really use football based strategies to succeed at the game. It's one of the primary reasons I don't visit them.

If you have written so many articles on strategy, instead of complaining about the complainers why don't you go ahead and post the strategies for people to discuss? If you are trying to promote a site with your articles you can even link to the post/thread there and if they are worthwhile I'm sure they'll garner some attention/discussion.

[CreatineKasey]

I've tried strategy discussions and realized a couple of things:

A lot of the vets have talked over these things a lot in the past and are pretty much settled.

A lot of regular Madden forum-goers aren't interested in football strategy in comparison to discussing the game's mechanics in detail.

We have some legitimate experts here who have played substantially at the college level and know the game in and out. I think they don't get too excited about discussing things that are "common knowledge" for a lot of football geeks. Because of that, the discussion turns to the direction of the franchise in almost every thread.

I also think other forums that are almost 100% strategy based fill that need for the gamer who is looking for it.

[tlc12576]

I have to pretty much agree with Val on this one,no need for realistic NFL strategy talk when that strategy is ineffective in-game.I think the other sites you are refering to discuss using this play to counter that play etc but alot of the plays that would counter another play in the real NFL dont work that way in Madden.

I played a guy that would come out in a 4wr shotgun and audible to a goaline run.I began to come out in a 4-3 defense thinking he would stay in shotgun and pass on me.Instead,he continued to audible to a goaline run and was still successful.Now anyone with the slightest football knowledge is aware that goaline is effective in short yardage because you sacrifice skill positions to bring in more blockers.There is NO way 4wrs should be able to line up in goaline blocker positions and be repeatedly sucessful.

I refuse to read about how a person should run dime and quarter defenses to neutralize mobile QBs and strecth run plays against offensive tight formations because you have faster players on the field.That's not strategy,that's just using one exploit to stop another,IMO.I should be able to spy and/or QB contain in a 4-3 defense against an I formation for instance and contain the QB or adjust my DL/LBs to defend right/left tosses/sweeps.

If they made the game so the different skill levels meant the game played more NFL sim the higher the level than we could have real NFL strategy discussions.Until then,most strategy talk about Madden will have little to do with NFL football.That's a travesty,IMO,considering Madden is allegedly based on the NFL.

[Maelstrom-XIII]

If you're referring to game strategies, I am actually glad there's not a lot of discussion about it...the point of it is to figure out a strategy that works for you...I play as the Panthers and like running the ball constantly--I have a great OLine, and two stud running backs. I'll pass to get decent yardarge or off of playaction (that doesn't work because of the game mechanics :/)...but some people would probably prefer an air-it-out type offense.

Likewise on defense. Some people are really aggressive and blitz every other down, some people prefer to play run on first and second, blitz occasionally on passing downs...it's not really something, as far as getting better AT THE GAME, that someone can tell you...

Now, if you're talking football strategy, I enjoy reading those posts...LBz is awesome at discussing defensive strategy, how things should work, as are many other posters here...but I still find it to be over my head a lot of times...I would bet money that it is over a lot of people's heads...and that's why there's not a lot of it. I most certainly can't tell you the difference between a stretch run play and an offtackle, or an HB Dive and an Iso...but I know enough to get by in the game...at least so much as Madden simulates it.

[Senator Palmer]

Thanks for the input, TNT, much appreciated.

And while we're all on the strategy talk(lol!) do you incorporate slide protection into your offensive scheme (running or passing)? I'm pretty good at identifying blitzes, but there was a time where I just wouldn't mess with it because it seems like it left one side of the d-line completely untouched.

I know that you can't protect everything when it comes to an all out blitz, but I have a hard time getting it to pick up against five man rushes. I had a LOLB in nickel situation show blitz in the B gap, so I slide the line in that direction, but it completely abandoned the opposite side and the DE came untouched.

I saw the same blitz again and thought that pinching the line would be the way to go. This time the linebacker got picked up but the DE on that side came free. Add to that, when playing against the CPU, my blitzes get picked up like clockwork.

And does anyone have a definitive answer as to what aggressive does? Last-gen, up would spread your line out and protect against the edge rush, now it seems like it would be good for short yardage, but I read in a blocking blog from the devs that line calls wouldn't do anything in the running game this year. And in passing situations when I've gone aggressive, the good de's would just slide right off the blocker.

[Maelstrom-XIII]

I think using the aggressive protection made your Oline go for more pancakes, rather than sustain blocks...I never really used it much because I didn't see much of a difference, but I think that's what it was supposed to do.

[Rashad19]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

When a game lacks proper locomotion, has pyschic DBs, lacks route based passing, etc, it's hard to talk strategy because the game fails to fundamentally represent the sport. What we end up with instead are tips on how to perform nano-blitz's, or how to alter players routes, basically mechanisms that have nothing to do with real football or real football strategy but instead focus on how to take advantage of an already flawed AI. Until Locomotion, Passing, and Coverage are corrected, the topics on real football strategy are going to be few and far between.

I agree with Val on this one. Strategy is discussed here but it's tough to translate it to Madden because most of the football principles are not expressed. Outside of the issues Val outlined weather, fatigue, and team play styles do not really come into play in Madden.

There is a reason the Dolphins usually come out the gates fast every year it's because of the extreme heat in Miami. The Bears are rough to deal with in December due to cold temps, loose sod and high winds. It's hard for the Saints to walk in and throw it 35+ times successfully. In Madden those factors just don't come into play. I don't know. Maybe I'm getting to deep here but these are some of the things that come to mind when I think of football strategy. Physics, locomotion, fatigue, weather, ratings, play styles all fall under this category.