Here's what needs to be done to fix presentation

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by thudias

My opinion is that this opinion is on the very negative side... More likely is that they (tib) are try so hard to innovate and go beyond & better than normal TV presentation that they are falling waay short. I think they want to raise the bar so broadcast tries to emulate the game and not the game tries to emulate real life....Right now its just not there and the Madden consumers and TV broadcasters notice. TV broadcast is still better than what the Madden teams has developed thus far. This doesn't mean it wont ever happen because in theory it should because the Madden team has more freedom than is or will ever be available in real life. when its all virtual..cameras can go anywhere. Overlays banner and things should happen dynamic and seem random. Again like I said before just not there yet.

We are all entitled to our own opinion but I dont understand why you think mine is negative.Its cynical but well deserved concedering EAs' track record with next-gen Madden,IMO.If they are in fact "trying so hard" as you say but still "falling way short",that sounds far more negative than what I believe.LOL At least I think what's going on is some what intentional and planned,sounds like you just think they havent been able to get the job done right despite their best efforts.

I also,dont see why you think your opinion on it is "more likely".It doesnt make sense to try to do something better before you learn how to do it right,IMO.

[N@X_WiZaRD]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Hear me out: I'm starting to think that EA intentionally puts their own spin on presentation. In other words, they're aware that they're not following TV presentation to a T and that's their objective.

If that's the case, then EA intentionally misled us. When Ian said we'd see everything we see on Sunday, that includes having presentation that closely follows a regular network broadcast. Because that's what we SEE every Sunday. What we get on Sunday doesn't include horrible camera angles, weak post-play replays, and non-existent half-time shows.

And EA can't hide behind the excuse of mistakenly misinterpreting their vision of "What we see on Sunday". They knew 100% that they were implying something similar to ESPN 2k5's presentation. That's why many of your CD buddies (i.e. The Watcher) took enormous amounts of time expounding upon their ideas to elevate the presentation to 2k5 quality - it was that implicit. I also seem to remember that Ian specifically said he'd finally surpass ESPN 2k5 with Madden 10. If that was the case, then adding an authentic broadcast presentation scheme would be a large part of doing that. Which is why it was so easy to assume they would do it.

If EA intentionally misled us, then they fully deserve all the indignation that they're getting about their mediocre presentation. If they were honestly unaware that their claims were being widely interpreted as hinting at finally adding a network-esque broadcast presentation package (and not simply another permutation of their lackluster EA-brand presentation), then I don't know what to say. That's extremely hard to believe.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

For what it's worth, I'm a CD guy too. Presentation fell flat last year, but a lot of us agreed that they tried to do too much in all aspects of the game. In the end, they were able to say they did a whole lot with M10 and many people enjoyed it. But nothing was tuned to perfection including presentation. So I gave it a year to get it right and get it up to broadcast standards. Fast forward to M11, though I like what I see from a presentational standpoint, you won't be tricked into thinking you're watching a game on TV. All they had to do from last year was tighten up what they had including the weird cutscenes, add some banners and better broadcast-ish cameras, and that would've sufficed. Instead, while presentation was improved, it still doesn't mimick a TV broadcast. Presentation doesn't have to be over-the-top to get up to broadcast standards -- they don't have to reinvent the wheel here. APF seemed to lock down broadcast presentation without much flair...it was to the point but very effective. You're welcome to be skeptical. I don't think it's mind-blowing to say that these guys are NFL fans and do watch games. Now to what extent, that's debateable. That's why I placed it under the attention-to-detail category rather than them not being NFL fans. Obviously, there are different levels of NFL fandom. Some guys could care less about what goes on in the offseason as an example. On the contrary, you have those who are concerned about OTA's, mini-camp, training camp, the whole 9 yards. To get back on topic, I'm just not one to believe that they see what's before them from a presentation standpoint via real life broadcasts and continue to unintentionally bastardize it (for lack of better word). It seems like a design decision more than anything else to me.

I don't think it's mind blowing to think that they don't really know a lot about Football either. The Backbreaker team is probably made up of people that were not that knowledgeable or passionate about Football, yet they worked on a Football game. I doubt that everyone on the God of War team is all that crazy about Greek mythology.

I place people everyday as developers who work on front office financial applications for major investment banks that don't know anymore about the financial instruments that these applications trade than is absolutely necessary to complete their tasks. They do their jobs pretty well. But you know who does their jobs extremely well? The people that have a BS in CS, an MS in Financial Application Development and an MBA in Finance.

Let's just say that nothing I have seen leads me to believe that Tiburon is comprised of the guys with the MBA's.

[TheWatcher]

^^^ But in creative fields, education is no indicator of talent or creativity at all. It certainly isn't the main contributor to vision or the ability to make sensible judgement calls in connection to that vision. Some things you either have or you don't.

I'm pretty sure most of the people who program Madden are well-educated in the standardized educational systems. The complexity of a project that large would demand it in a number of critical disciplines that require years of study and training to gain entry into the field.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

^^^ But in creative fields, education is no indicator of talent or creativity at all. It certainly isn't the main contributor to vision or the ability to make sensible judgement calls in connection to that vision. Some things you either have or you don't. I'm pretty sure most of the people who program Madden are well-educated in the standardized educational systems. The complexity of a project that large would demand it in a number of critical disciplines that require years of study and training to gain entry into the field.

I wasn't commenting on whether Tiburon devs had the proper education. I was using the education to be analogous to Football knowledge.

A dev with no knowledge of financial products, but a strong grasp of tech, can work on a financial application and do a fine job. A dev with strong technical knowledge, as well as strong business side knowledge of financial products, can work on a financial application and most likely do a better job.

A dev with strong technical knowledge, and little to no knowledge of Football, can work on a Football game and do a fine job. A dev with strong technical knowledge, and strong knowledge of the game of Football, can work on a Football game and most likely do a better job.

That's what I was saying.

[Exonerated]

I got tired of NCAA presentation on the demo on the second play through.

Honestly, if the 'presentation' elements are not during the actual playing of the game, this stuff will be thumbed through after the 5th time.

Also. some stuff is unskippable. I get annoyed when i can't skip through a 4 second clip before half time.

That being said, I enjoy presentation. Ill see it a handful of times before I'll skip everything.

And like a previous poster said, everyone thumbs through everything at E3.

[N@X_WiZaRD]

Quote: Originally Posted by Exonerated

I got tired of NCAA presentation on the demo on the second play through. Honestly, if the 'presentation' elements are not during the actual playing of the game, this stuff will be thumbed through after the 5th time. Also. some stuff is unskippable. I get annoyed when i can't skip through a 4 second clip before half time. That being said, I enjoy presentation. Ill see it a handful of times before I'll skip everything. And like a previous poster said, everyone thumbs through everything at E3.

Same here.

NCAA 11's presentation was pathetic. If I had to describe it in one sentence, it would basically be NCAA 10 but with expanded College Gameday intros. After you got in the game, it was essentially the same presentation as before (i.e. nauseating replay cams and mistimed camera shots). A great example of how having ESPN presentation doesn't automatically mean you have great presentation.

[vodkatonic]

I dont even care anymore.

Based on how lame the commentating still sounds, its pretty clear that the commentators themselves arent at fault...its how EA uses them.

Gus Johnson adds some life, but the commentating is still way too fragmented and lame. I hate to bring up NFL 2K5, but seriously...how they hell were they able to make it sound so lifelike and Madden cant even come close 6 years later on a stronger machine? Please, I need to know.

I thought 10 made alot of progress in the presentation department, but it was still far off. This year, it appears all they really did was add Gus Johnson, a few new cutscenes and took out the half time show (not sure yet).

As for the rest of the presentation, I mean..I think it suffices for now. Far from perfect, but gameplay and franchise need to be addressed long before any more fluff is added. I want to see presentation get better, dont get me wrong, but if they arent going to make any real changes for the better, they should just leave it be until they are.