Passing System

[Skyboxer]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

There are alot of us that play Madden for the feel of the game, and an overhaul of the passing system is a large part of that feel. I like both the basic passing system and the Read & Lead systems that exist in Madden. If changes are made, they should have minimal effect on the overall dynamic but should penalize poor mechanics more heavily than they are penalized today... While I often read exaggerated reports about players consistently throwing accurate passes 40 yards downfield while sprinting straight backward, I have seen plenty of bad mechanics rewarded with consistent completions when throws should have been errant... I'm a fan of a two button system to first look at a receiver, then a 2nd press to throw the ball. The exception is the primary receiver that would require only one button to throw. Players should be able to select a primary before the snap, making that receiver "HOT" so he's looking for the ball the entire play... Other receivers won't look until they cut. Meanwhile, selecting a player to look at will allow the QB to select which receiver he pump fakes toward to pull safeties out of position. Unlike the QB vision cone, there should be no on-screen indication that a player is looking at a particular receiver except a slight turn of the his head. Other than that, there shouldn't be an overhaul of the passing system otherwise EA risks picking up 200,000 fans who love the new passing system while losing triple that in loyal fans who will feel betrayed (again). Later

That's why you make a new system but have it as an option. Again the way it is now should remain so since it hasn't changed in forever.

It's 2011... using the exact same passing method for all these years or only having one system I should say = stale for a lot of people.
I don't feel like I'm QB'ing by just hitting a button. Let me throw anywhere on the field. We had that option back in 2004 and years before in FB games...

[rooney8]

Alot of things I feel are a bit on the basic side. Passing is definately one of them. I would like to be able to make different throws. I think we have all tried to hit a reciever going over the middle 25 yards down only for the mlb to catch the bullet pass 10 yards away. If I had the ability to lob the pass a little over him I could have no complaints about it but when looking 25 yards down feild you aren't even considering the mlb in front of you.
However one problem with giving the user more control is it will most likely result that you won't notice much difference between P.Manning and Johnny Average.

[Skyboxer]

Quote: Originally Posted by rooney8

Alot of things I feel are a bit on the basic side. Passing is definately one of them. I would like to be able to make different throws. I think we have all tried to hit a reciever going over the middle 25 yards down only for the mlb to catch the bullet pass 10 yards away. If I had the ability to lob the pass a little over him I could have no complaints about it but when looking 25 yards down feild you aren't even considering the mlb in front of you. However one problem with giving the user more control is it will most likely result that you won't notice much difference between P.Manning and Johnny Average.

Yep my concern as well, which is why you "should" be able to make the ratings matter.. but I'm no game programmer... lol

Make the ACC rating decide how close exactly the ball ends up where you are throwing
Awareness could dictate how fast the cursor moved or like someone mentioned earlier how much of the playbook was open to them...

Strength obviously would mean how fast the ball got there and how far you could throw it...

Again for all those that like the way it is:
We aren't asking to get rid of the current passing system but just asking if we can get some more options.

Imagine if we never progressed from season mode to franchise.

How do you feel that OF is virtually unchanged this year...
now imagine it not changing for 10+ years... that's how those that want a new experience in the passing game feel...

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by rooney8

Alot of things I feel are a bit on the basic side. Passing is definately one of them. I would like to be able to make different throws. I think we have all tried to hit a reciever going over the middle 25 yards down only for the mlb to catch the bullet pass 10 yards away. If I had the ability to lob the pass a little over him I could have no complaints about it but when looking 25 yards down feild you aren't even considering the mlb in front of you. However one problem with giving the user more control is it will most likely result that you won't notice much difference between P.Manning and Johnny Average.

Not sure which system you're on (PS3 or 360), but you can control the trajectory of passes by how you press the button. On the PS3, the icon buttons are pressure sensitive which will give you a bit more control than the 360. The 360; however, also allows control of trajectory by the length of time the button is depressed.

99% of the throws I've intercepted or had intercepted by a LB in the middle were the result of a hurried throw because I was trying to throw into a rapidly closing hole approximately 20+ yards downfield. In my INT throws, I was forced to throw HARD to get the ball to the right spot in time for the receiver to make a catch but with a trajectory that won't keep the ball in the air long. I can always 'feel' when my pass isn't high enough and when I need to get ready to make a tackle instead of a catch.

The difference between Peyton Manning and Joe Average is the decisions they make. While one QB may be more accurate, have a stronger arm, etc, what separates the great from the average is the decisions that are made. When a person is controlling a player, his AWR rating is overridden by the users 'AWR.' Good players are capable of making good decisions with a sub-par QB, likewise bad players can make a great player look bad with poor decisions.

@Skyboxer

Fortunately, there is more to passing effectively in Madden than simply 'hitting a button.' If you use the simplest passing mechanic, you can be effective simply hitting the button with the proper pressure to facilitate throws of varied trajectory. But should players need more control of the ball's placement, there is also the Read & Lead mechanic that allows the QB to deliver the ball to an area near the receiver allowing players more freedom in the passing game.

Also, part of the appeal of Madden is the simplicity of the passing mechanic. Not only can a player with 20 years of experience excel, but any new player seeking to pick up the game can do so and pass without too much mechanical training... Doing so effectively becomes a matter of skill once the basics are mastered.

Right now it's similar to chess in that it's easy to learn, but difficult to master.

Later

[Skyboxer]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

@Skyboxer Fortunately, there is more to passing effectively in Madden than simply 'hitting a button.' If you use the simplest passing mechanic, you can be effective simply hitting the button with the proper pressure to facilitate throws of varied trajectory. But should players need more control of the ball's placement, there is also the Read & Lead mechanic that allows the QB to deliver the ball to an area near the receiver allowing players more freedom in the passing game. Also, part of the appeal of Madden is the simplicity of the passing mechanic. Not only can a player with 20 years of experience excel, but any new player seeking to pick up the game can do so and pass without too much mechanical training... Doing so effectively becomes a matter of skill once the basics are mastered. Right now it's similar to chess in that it's easy to learn, but difficult to master. Later

I'm saying I want to throw where I want to on the field. Compared to a throw anywhere system, yes the current way is simplistic in many ways.
And again I know the simplistic system has mass appeal but what if EA took that same philosophy regarding season/franchise? We'd never get any upgrades and would still be in Single season mode only.

Yes Madden has where you can lead or throw high/low etc.. but that isn't the same as the ability to throw anywhere on the field. It's a totally different experience.
Heck even completing a nice screen pass with a throw anywhere system is exciting and a feeling of accomplishment.
As for the difficult to master try Fever and tell me if after a good day of passing you don't feel you've accomplished more than with a good day of passing in current system...

All I'm saying is give a seperate option other than the hit X for X WR.

I can understand it if I was asking to replace the current system but I'm not. Keep both

[lofeazy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

As for the difficult to master try Fever and tell me if after a good day of passing you don't feel you've accomplished more than with a good day of passing in current system...

I total agree.It took me a couple of hours to master Fever passing.(And I still made errors when playing.)Same with BB.BB reminds me of fever without the cursor.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

I'm a fan of a two button system to first look at a receiver, then a 2nd press to throw the ball. The exception is the primary receiver that would require only one button to throw. Players should be able to select a primary before the snap, making that receiver "HOT" so he's looking for the ball the entire play... Other receivers won't look until they cut. Meanwhile, selecting a player to look at will allow the QB to select which receiver he pump fakes toward to pull safeties out of position.

I like this idea too. NFL Fever also featured this and it was called trigger passing; I like this more than the Read & Lead.

To me, there's so much untapped potential in using the RT (R2) trigger for passing. Varying degrees of touch/bullets comes to mind.

I just want to see some innovation here. However, when Ian surfed these forums, he expressed on a couple occasions that he wasn't anxious to tweak the passing game. He alluded to how you only have a couple seconds to process the information (read a defense) anyway. Too many tricks/controls could possibly complicate the passing game for many users. Yes, they could give us options. But you gotta find something intuitive to use to even be worthy of the dev time that it would probably command.

Beyond a variation of trigger passing, I don't know what else could be done. I don't want something that makes me feel on the field as that's not what I look for when playing videogames. I like the action to play out before me with me manipulating the results. Splitting the field in sections or manipulating the camera seems like something better fit for superstar mode IMO.

[Skyboxer]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I like this idea too. NFL Fever also featured this and it was called trigger passing; I like this more than the Read & Lead. To me, there's so much untapped potential in using the RT (R2) trigger for passing. Varying degrees of touch/bullets comes to mind. I just want to see some innovation here. However, when Ian surfed these forums, he expressed on a couple occasions that he wasn't anxious to tweak the passing game. He alluded to how you only have a couple seconds to process the information (read a defense) anyway. Too many tricks/controls could possibly complicate the passing game for many users. Yes, they could give us options. But you gotta find something intuitive to use to even be worthy of the dev time that it would probably command. Beyond a variation of trigger passing, I don't know what else could be done. I don't want something that makes me feel on the field as that's not what I look for when playing videogames. I like the action to play out before me with me manipulating the results. Splitting the field in sections or manipulating the camera seems like something better fit for superstar mode IMO.

Yeah in the video game world there's a fine line between getting it "real" and keeping it playable.

Apple IIe Madden passing was awesome also:
Now I'm NOT saying I want this.. just showing how it was incorporated in that version.

Button 1 snapped the ball

You dropped back to pass

You then hit button again and it froze the action. You then decided where to throw the ball and moved cursor there. Once done you hit the button again and the pass was made.
Now you didn't have all day to throw because sort of like the vibration feature now with telling you how much pressure there was, then there was a beep. The fast the beeping the closer the pressure and eventually you got sacked.

That's how they did it back then with just a 2 button controller...

Just taking a trip down memory lane....

Obviously the "freeze" action would never go over well now BUT I think the throw anywhere method would win over more and more people over the years if done right.