Passing System

[RaiderKtulu]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Yeah in the video game world there's a fine line between getting it "real" and keeping it playable. Apple IIe Madden passing was awesome also: Now I'm NOT saying I want this.. just showing how it was incorporated in that version. Button 1 snapped the ball You dropped back to pass You then hit button again and it froze the action. You then decided where to throw the ball and moved cursor there. Once done you hit the button again and the pass was made. Now you didn't have all day to throw because sort of like the vibration feature now with telling you how much pressure there was, then there was a beep. The fast the beeping the closer the pressure and eventually you got sacked. That's how they did it back then with just a 2 button controller... Just taking a trip down memory lane.... Obviously the "freeze" action would never go over well now BUT I think the throw anywhere method would win over more and more people over the years if done right.

The problem with a throw anywhere system is that it'd really only work properly on the Wii with the point & click option. Plus I assume you'd have to have a target on the field to do that... which means in a 2 player local game your opponent would know exactly where you were throwing.

[PocketRocket]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

That still is just "Hit X for WR X" passing. Plus there was never enough of a penalty in the cone system when throwing to a WR you wern't "looking at" I want an option to throw anywhere on the field. That in itself will take care of underthrows/overthrows... I loved that about John Elway, TV Sports FB and Fever... Keep what we have but have some options.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The passing system needs additions; it doesn't need to be overhauled. As far as the penalty for throwing at to a receiver that you weren't looking at, there shouldn't be any penalty for throwing to a receiver that the quarterback isn't looking at. It should be impossible to throw to a receiver that you're not looking at. They should have a double tap system where you tap the button once to look at the receiver, and again to throw to him. You should always have to press the button first to look at he receiver, and then a second time to throw the ball.

There also is no need for a vision cone. I did like the feature, and was pissed when it was taken away, but the premise of it was a little flawed. If a quarterback's cone was big enough, like Farve, Manning or Brady, use didn't even have to use it. For the most part, every receiver was inside the cone. That's not how it works in reality; it shouldn't work like that in the game.

In reality, smarter quarterbacks go through their progressions quicker than their less intelligent counterparts; to simulate this reality, in the game, the higher a quarterbacks awarness rating is, the faster he should go through his progressions. Peyton Manning should be able to switch from one highlighted receiver to the next faster than Eli Manning.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

There are alot of us that play Madden for the feel of the game, and an overhaul of the passing system is a large part of that feel. I like both the basic passing system and the Read & Lead systems that exist in Madden. If changes are made, they should have minimal effect on the overall dynamic but should penalize poor mechanics more heavily than they are penalized today... While I often read exaggerated reports about players consistently throwing accurate passes 40 yards downfield while sprinting straight backward, I have seen plenty of bad mechanics rewarded with consistent completions when throws should have been errant... I'm a fan of a two button system to first look at a receiver, then a 2nd press to throw the ball. The exception is the primary receiver that would require only one button to throw. Players should be able to select a primary before the snap, making that receiver "HOT" so he's looking for the ball the entire play... Other receivers won't look until they cut. Meanwhile, selecting a player to look at will allow the QB to select which receiver he pump fakes toward to pull safeties out of position. Unlike the QB vision cone, there should be no on-screen indication that a player is looking at a particular receiver except a slight turn of the his head. Other than that, there shouldn't be an overhaul of the passing system otherwise EA risks picking up 200,000 fans who love the new passing system while losing triple that in loyal fans who will feel betrayed (again). Later

A slight turn of the head would not be discernible to the person on offense or defense. The camera in Madden is much to far away.

I've seen a lot of people complain that the defense could see where the QB is looking and think that it's a bad thing. Not saying you are or aren't in that camp, because I don't know. But what those that are in that camp are missing is that:

1- In real life the defense CAN see where the QB is looking and

2- This is not TOTALLY advantageous to the D. The offense can make use of the fact that the D will key where they are looking and bait them into areas that they have no intention of going, just like real life. This opens up a world of more strategy and realism and fun, in my opinion, to the game.

Now I am not saying that there HAS to be a Vision Cone, but if you are going to do it right, there DOES need to be some kind of visual representation of where the QB is looking Whether it's the cone, or an icon under the receiver being looked at, or cursor based passing, or a different camera, or something that hasn't been thought up yet, I'm not sure of the direction, but that aspect needs to be there.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Yep my concern as well, which is why you "should" be able to make the ratings matter.. but I'm no game programmer... lol Make the ACC rating decide how close exactly the ball ends up where you are throwing Awareness could dictate how fast the cursor moved or like someone mentioned earlier how much of the playbook was open to them... Strength obviously would mean how fast the ball got there and how far you could throw it... Again for all those that like the way it is: We aren't asking to get rid of the current passing system but just asking if we can get some more options. Imagine if we never progressed from season mode to franchise. How do you feel that OF is virtually unchanged this year... now imagine it not changing for 10+ years... that's how those that want a new experience in the passing game feel...

The truth of the matter is though that if the passing game were truly redesigned, the old passing system, in all likelihood, would not be able to coexist. That is if you are talking about anything other than a Vision Cone, and even that would have to be programmed for differently, because the AI would have to react to where you are looking when the cone is on, and they would not be able to do this when it is off.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by PocketRocket

There also is no need for a vision cone. I did like the feature, and was pissed when it was taken away, but the premise of it was a little flawed. If a quarterback's cone was big enough, like Farve, Manning or Brady, use didn't even have to use it. For the most part, every receiver was inside the cone. That's not how it works in reality; it shouldn't work like that in the game.

It's funny you mentioned the large cone of the elite QB's because every QB's cone should have been at least the size of Favre's. Reason being, the average person (non-athlete) has a periphery of 135 degrees. In essence, practically every QB in the game during the Vision Cone era had strokes that took their periphery down to sometimes less than 60 degrees. Medically, the QB Vision Cone would have rendered most players unfit to be released from a hospital, much less play a game.

I was so glad it was removed, because I physically couldn't bring myself to play Madden for the 2 years is was mandatory for ranked games (PS2). I hated QB Vision and actually bought my NG system just to get away from it.

Later

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by RaiderKtulu

The problem with a throw anywhere system is that it'd really only work properly on the Wii with the point & click option. Plus I assume you'd have to have a target on the field to do that... which means in a 2 player local game your opponent would know exactly where you were throwing.

You don't need motion controls for this (although all three consoles have motion control now anyway lol). You would use the right stick just like in a First Person Shooter. Left stick controls the player. Right stick controls the cursor movement.

Also, as I have said before, the fact that your opponent can see the cursor is a GOOD thing. You want the defense to see it. It allows you to look off receivers, so the offense has an advantage in that regard. The defense gets the advantage when the QB is under pressure and he doesn't have time to look off defenders. This is how it works in real life as well. This is a good thing.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by PocketRocket

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The passing system needs additions; it doesn't need to be overhauled. As far as the penalty for throwing at to a receiver that you weren't looking at, there shouldn't be any penalty for throwing to a receiver that the quarterback isn't looking at. It should be impossible to throw to a receiver that you're not looking at. They should have a double tap system where you tap the button once to look at the receiver, and again to throw to him. You should always have to press the button first to look at he receiver, and then a second time to throw the ball. There also is no need for a vision cone. I did like the feature, and was pissed when it was taken away, but the premise of it was a little flawed. If a quarterback's cone was big enough, like Farve, Manning or Brady, use didn't even have to use it. For the most part, every receiver was inside the cone. That's not how it works in reality; it shouldn't work like that in the game. In reality, smarter quarterbacks go through their progressions quicker than their less intelligent counterparts; to simulate this reality, in the game, the higher a quarterbacks awarness rating is, the faster he should go through his progressions. Peyton Manning should be able to switch from one highlighted receiver to the next faster than Eli Manning.

The fact of the matter is that in real life a QB almost never throws to a receiver. He throws to a spot on the field that he thinks the receiver will end up by the time the ball gets there.

This is what I, and many others, want in the game. It adds realism and strategy and control.

And as far as poor QB's not going through progressions as fast as a great one, that isn't totally true. It's not always about the speed, it is also about the fact that many QB's lock on to a receiver more so than they just go through progressions slowly. Sometimes there are no progressions.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

It's funny you mentioned the large cone of the elite QB's because every QB's cone should have been at least the size of Favre's. Reason being, the average person (non-athlete) has a periphery of 135 degrees. In essence, practically every QB in the game during the Vision Cone era had strokes that took their periphery down to sometimes less than 60 degrees. Medically, the QB Vision Cone would have rendered most players unfit to be released from a hospital, much less play a game. I was so glad it was removed, because I physically couldn't bring myself to play Madden for the 2 years is was mandatory for ranked games (PS2). I hated QB Vision and actually bought my NG system just to get away from it. Later

While wearing a Football helmet, surrounded by players of both teams, that number is definitely less.