if madden is always better than ncaa, then we are in for a surprise:)

[blklightning]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

This is funny, because Madden is geared towards the casual gamer this year. It's the prime directive.

i don't think this is true. they're making it easier to get into by simplifying interfaces and whatnot (user options), but to say they're (and i'm paraphrasing) dumbing it down for the masses is inaccurate.

remember the game othello? "takes a minute to learn, a lifetime to master." that's the direction i feel the devs have gone with this year's madden. at least that's the way i've perceived this year's marketing.

[RumbleCard]

Quote: Originally Posted by blklightning

i don't think this is true. they're making it easier to get into by simplifying interfaces and whatnot (user options), but to say they're (and i'm paraphrasing) dumbing it down for the masses is inaccurate. remember the game othello? "takes a minute to learn, a lifetime to master." that's the direction i feel the devs have gone with this year's madden. at least that's the way i've perceived this year's marketing.

I like this post. Yes its simplified for the average gamer who doesn't want to scroll through play after play with uncertainty of what will work. While still keeping the depth of allowing us to formulate and customize our game plans.

I think it will be a very welcome addition once we get used to it. Finally a layer of strategy added.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by joejccva71

Roadman I am talking about when the CPU runs, not when there is user running. When the CPU runs on a pitch play or a stretch...he will made hard cuts to the inside right into blockers instead of taking an open field toward the sidelines. It happens all the time in NCAA 11 and it's a noticeable problem. It's not completely gamebreaking because the CPU RB's still get decent yards per game or have realistic stats, but its still an issue. I play CPU vs CPU games and it happens all the time with me. I've had my CPU RB have a clear field to the endzone only to make a hard cut back toward the middle of the field like there is a magnet there and meet head-on with 4 defensive tacklers. Frustrating to say the least. I pray this problem isn't there in Madden.

Ok, thank you for clarifying.

I usually don't see any of that because I'm on player lock on D, but I'll try to see if I can notice.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I might have to get a game in with you sometime to see some of this stuff. Granted, I think there have been some issues with the ball arc (M10) especially when throwing downfield and a defender 5-10 yards off the ball can deflect the pass. But other than that, in M10 (and the NCAA demo) I've never had much problem with the D-line or LB's swatting balls. And I've been playing on All-Madden lately. Maybe I've adapted to Madden's passing game? Then again, maybe you're guilty of trying things that worked in other football games but do not work as effectively in Madden? Who knows -- I'm just trying to get a feel for why some (not I so much) think the passing game shines in Madden while you often seem to have so much trouble with it.

I have not played the NCAA 11 retail version nor did I play very many games of Madden 10. However, the previous Madden games I played on this generation were really bad when it came to the passing game. A few issues were the lack of route based passing (although it's not terrible the way it is now as you can still lead a receiver), the ball arc on deep balls was often referred to as a "moon ball" as it went too high. The worst was the fact that you could not throw the ball effectively over the middle because LBs would jumpt 10 feet and intercept a pass. If you play against someone who plays cover 2 often, you couldn't attack the middle of the field because it was impossible to drop a pass under the safety and over the LB. Madden 10 did not seem as bad in the 10 games I played of it. I did not see it happen in the 2 games I played in the NCAA demo, but that is not nearly enough time to spend with the game.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I might have to get a game in with you sometime to see some of this stuff. Granted, I think there have been some issues with the ball arc (M10) especially when throwing downfield and a defender 5-10 yards off the ball can deflect the pass. But other than that, in M10 (and the NCAA demo) I've never had much problem with the D-line or LB's swatting balls. And I've been playing on All-Madden lately. Maybe I've adapted to Madden's passing game? Then again, maybe you're guilty of trying things that worked in other football games but do not work as effectively in Madden? Who knows -- I'm just trying to get a feel for why some (not I so much) think the passing game shines in Madden while you often seem to have so much trouble with it.

That isn't an issue limited to Madden 10. That is a Madden staple from the first Genesis Madden till now.

There are only 2 Madden games and one NCAA game where you could consistently throw over a defenders head and not worry about the defender swatting from 5, sometimes 10yds behind the play. That's NCAA 06, Madden 99, and Madden 07.

Play bump and run without 2 Deep Safeties on those games and it will be a long day for you.

On any other Madden game it is not uncommon to see a LB intercept a pass while he is 5yds from the line of scrimmage that is intended for a receiver running a post 30yds up field. I've even seen on Madden 08, which was the worst offender of this to me, a time where I was playing a friend and I lobbed a pass, while holding the joystick up to lead a receiver on a Go, while he was a good 15yds up field, and had a LB that was in a hook zone about 7yds up field, jump and intercept a pass that was probably headed at least 40yds up field. I put the controller down and we both traded in what is in my opinion the worst Football game ever made lol. This is not an exaggeration. I swear this happened.

Now I don't know what Valdarez is talking about specifically because I don't have NCAA and I don't think I have ever tried a middle screen. There is a reason for that. I know Madden.

You said that maybe he is trying something that works in another game and maybe that's why he is having trouble. That's probably the case. I have a great passing game in Madden, but not because Madden has a great passing game, but because I know what you can and can't do in the game. I learned a long time ago that real life passing strategies don't work in Madden. People that would be wide open in real life are covered in Madden because you can defend from so far behind the play. If a WR has a step on a DB IRL, that receiver is open. In Madden they need to have a good 10yds to be open or you will still probably be able to swat. People talk about how hard it is to play D on Madden and how the Offense gets upgrade every year and has an advantage. I don't know about that. I've seen many people online play Goal Line D the entire game with Bump and Run and have success. Why? Because in Madden you are pretty much never scared of someone going over the top. I know I dare people to pass deep by using BNR and Man and get burnt every once in a blue moon. No team IRL would put both DBs on an Island for a whole game, but in Madden, it's not a scary proposition at all.

Part of this, a big part of this, as Valdarez says, is because of trajectory. It's not the only issue though. No Route Based Passing is another. Not being able to throw to the spot on the field of your choosing, but instead, having passes tethered to receivers is yet another.

In short, Madden's passing game has serious issues. That doesn't mean that I can't pass, but it means that to a certain extent I have to use Madden strategy, because real life strategy doesn't work, and I hate that. So when you said that he is trying to do something that works in another game and applying to Madden, without success, you are probably right, Madden doesn't do passing like other games, which in this case is a bad thing. Most importantly it doesn't do passing like THE most important game. The NFL. And that is a big problem to me, regardless of whether I can still be successful passing, the way it is now.

[ODogg]

Actually it seems to me Madden has only ever been better than NCAA in one year, and that was last year. Prior to that I've always thought that NCAA was superior to Madden.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Actually it seems to me Madden has only ever been better than NCAA in one year, and that was last year. Prior to that I've always thought that NCAA was superior to Madden.

I haven't played anywhere near as many NCAA's as I have Madden's. I think I have owned NCAA 06, 07, and maybe 08. Can't remember. I can say though that NCAA 06 was an unbelievable game and better than most Madden's that I've played.

The passing game and the way that jukes worked was much better than any other EA Football game aside from Madden 99 and maybe Madden 07.

The juke on Madden 99 was by far the best to me. It was the most realistic looking, strangely enough considering it was on the PS1. It looked very similar to the juke in Backbreaker. I wish they would do it like that again. The runner would actually head fake one way then cut the other way as opposed to the hop juke that they started doing on Madden 2000. Shame.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

I have not played the NCAA 11 retail version nor did I play very many games of Madden 10. However, the previous Madden games I played on this generation were really bad when it came to the passing game. A few issues were the lack of route based passing (although it's not terrible the way it is now as you can still lead a receiver), the ball arc on deep balls was often referred to as a "moon ball" as it went too high. The worst was the fact that you could not throw the ball effectively over the middle because LBs would jumpt 10 feet and intercept a pass.

Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. The passing game in M08 (well the entire game for that matter) was abysmal. Throwing 4-5+ INTs a game was pretty common for me. As you noted, it's been steadily improved since then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

On any other Madden game it is not uncommon to see a LB intercept a pass while he is 5yds from the line of scrimmage that is intended for a receiver running a post 30yds up field. I've even seen on Madden 08, which was the worst offender of this to me, a time where I was playing a friend and I lobbed a pass, while holding the joystick up to lead a receiver on a Go, while he was a good 15yds up field, and had a LB that was in a hook zone about 7yds up field, jump and intercept a pass that was probably headed at least 40yds up field.

Agreed. I always say that I have no idea how Tiburon/EA let that game out the door. It was without question the most frustrating football game I've ever played.

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

You said that maybe he is trying something that works in another game and maybe that's why he is having trouble. That's probably the case. I have a great passing game in Madden, but not because Madden has a great passing game, but because I know what you can and can't do in the game. I learned a long time ago that real life passing strategies don't work in Madden. People that would be wide open in real life are covered in Madden because you can defend from so far behind the play. If a WR has a step on a DB IRL, that receiver is open. In Madden they need to have a good 10yds to be open or you will still probably be able to swat. Part of this, a big part of this, as Valdarez says, is because of trajectory. It's not the only issue though. No Route Based Passing is another. Not being able to throw to the spot on the field of your choosing, but instead, having passes tethered to receivers is yet another.

I'm a pretty solid passer as well. It took time to get there though. I played 2K5 consistently up until M10 came out. So like Val, I struggled in the early going when making the transition. I think that was a testament of not knowing how much ground the defenders could cover in Madden (to EA's fault).

But you learn to adapt if you have any interest in playing Madden and can avoid the issue(s). That's why I'm wondering what Val's strategy is in passing the ball. I'm not a Madden strategy guru, but there are not too many times I have the D-line/LBs deflect passes.

I don't really want to get into the route-based passing debate. It often leads to one's interpretation of it versus another's and the convo goes nowhere as evidenced by TNT/Val's discussion 1-2 months ago. But IMO, while Madden is more forgiving than 2K8 (and quiet as kept 2K8 had some 'forgiveness' built in too), RBP does exist in some cases in Madden.