Madden's Biggest Issue: Vision and Focus

[ODogg]

That's a very good post and analysis johnprestonevans. I think the issue here is that, in the past, Madden was THE game and it did have widespread appeal to a lot of different people. The other sports games really were afterthoughts more than serious sports games. Madden was THE GAME and as top dog everyone loved it. Then you fast forward to today and other sports games are selling better and better and Madden is selling worse.

So with that in mind the EA suits are thinking "We need to make the game like it used to be, loved by everyone!" but the problem is in the old days if you were a sports fan your choices were very limited. You were pretty much going to play Madden, which was a good game comparatively, instead of picking up some terrible recreation of other sports games.

Now a baseball fan has excellent choices to pick from. Ditto for golf, soccer, motocross, racing, etc etc. Those sports fans who used to pick up Madden just because it was the only decent sports game available are not going to come back to the product no matter how it's redesigned. A soccer fan is in hog heaven playing FIFA or PES and that's just how it is.

The on the flip side you have the COD/Halo market, as has been mentioned, where EA looks at them and says "we need those guys, they are potential fans and a potential market". But the flaw is the same, most of the FPS guys are simply FPS guys and that's it. No matter what you do to the game EA is not going to get them to buy Madden.

Then you have the hardcore, Madden loyalists. Every year they see their game get released with either poor design choices, missing or buggy features and then some of the things they honestly have no issue with (the audibles, hot routes system, kicking metter) are bungled and changed. The direction of the series changes every year. It appears disjointed and schizophrenic.

So in effect, EA has become like the dog with a bone in it's mouth looking into the water, seeing another bone there and dropping the real bone in pursuit of the bone they can never obtain. It's the best analogy I can honestly think of. EA is chasing two separate markets and all the while the market they used to own with an iron fist is slowly, one by one, walking away disgusted and upset, possibly never to return.

I honestly hope that the EA suits take the advice of the OP and start a 3 year plan for Madden. Quit changing things that people are fine with. Start addressing real issues. Make the game more sim-like, more immersive and more realistic. Not more glam, more gimmicky or more buzzword oriented. Get the basics down, like NCAA 11 seems to have done and then work on the little extras later. Market the game as a return to its roots and the most realistic football game ever made. Maybe it's not too late to win back your real fans. But the clock is ticking and if they don't do something soon it could get to the point where Madden will need a complete reboot, ala the hockey game of 2K sports.

[Vikes1]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveDQ

Take one game like EA's NHL series and you will see the anticipation in the buyer as to what the next level is for that game. You don't get that upward sense with Madden. It's more of a lateral feel, where they are traveling along, picking and choosing things to enhance the game, yet never improving on what they picked up. There just isn't a sense that they are creating standards to be reached.

Extremely well put Dave.

Just 18 months ago I was pretty much like most every other Madden gamer. Football has always been my favorite sport, so I was just dealing the best I could with what was coming out of Tiburon. But personally, my time spent playing the game was fading fast, as my interest waned. As you so well put, yeah...there was just a "lateral" feel to the game each year. Just another Madden game coming. Nothing to get too excited about.

About 18 months ago my son bought me my first NHL game...wow!, I was almost immediately hooked. And my Madden gaming fell to zero. Imo, NHL, much like The Show and FIFA just have that "something" that Madden just no longer has. I think one of the best things that could be said for sport games like The Show, NHL and FIFA is...I've seen a number of people post that they play these games even though their not even particularly interested in the sport they represent. To me...that says a lot.

Granted I now have a bias view of NHL vs Madden. But as you mentioned Dave, I have a real anticipation of where the EA Canada team is taking their game. And it at least seems as though they have a solid vision of where their headed with it. Whereas with Madden...I kinda sense Tiburon is sorta all over the place with Madden. Adding, then subtracting as they go. And struggling to develop a polish and refinement these other games are achieving.

[rangerrick012]

I don't know how to say this without it coming off as semi-bashing, but to me it seems true - the Madden team does not listen to the fan's concerns. What fans asked for gameflow? What fans asked to change the audible system? I saw this in no wishlist threads. Why the new kicking meter? Who asked for that? It just seems like EA is making the decision to cater to the casual and make things 'simpler and quicker'.

Other developers, heck even some on EA like FIFA and NHL, seem to listen to what fans want and try to meet those concerns. It just seems like Madden for whatever reason, whether it's to move units and sell 2 mil every year, goes the opposite direction and shuns the concerns of its fans.

To me it isn't a 'hardcore vs casual' issue. It's an issue of someone at EA making a decision to add stuff that will add glitz while at the same time making it more accessible. But at the same time leaving behind those fans who have helped make Madden what it is. There just seems like a major disconnect between the concerns of the fans and buyers of Madden, and what EA puts out every year.

And when I see something like Ian saying to those who don't like the Strategy Pad "Trust me it's better, You will love it eventually" that doesn't seem like listening to the fans, it seems like forcing something onto the fans when they don't really want it.

Again, not trying to bash here, just calling it like I see it, and from what I see, EA - no, not EA, the Madden team, has a fundamental disconnect from what the fans want and ask for and what they put into the game.

[DaveDQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

If it was the economy and competition that explained Madden's falling numbers then how would one explain that other sports games are selling more each year? The Show, FIFA and NHL all come to mind. Madden doesn't need to capture the COD/Halo market. It's a completely different demographic. Madden needs to capture their own market that they've lost with the poor design choices and implementation in years past.

I agree with you here. I would say the equation that is equaling poor sales (or a drop in sales) is lack of true innovation + an annual release = drop in sales.

The game simply does not have something we look at and say, "Wow, now that is impressive. I really want to get my hands on that." You couple that with an annual release and you have a consumer that really isn't pressed to make the purchase. You can not expect your product to build momentum if you don't show the consumer something that grabs them. Right now the only incentive to buy this game is the NFL. That just isn't cutting it for a game that come out every year. And that's not talking about when they start talking about the next year's release. Nothing has grabbed us this year. LAst year's Pro-Tak and online franchise grabbed me, but this year the only thing that stands out to me is this odd debate over a silly new button mapping design.

[GaryT531]

Very well written, and a lot of excellent points are made as usual. By the time the Madden franchise finally has it all together, and puts out the game that just blows us all away (like Madden 05) it will be at the end of the run for XBOX 360, and it will be back to the drawing board all over again on whatever new system eventually comes out.

[ODogg]

I just said that the other day to a buddy GaryT - we'll finally get a game we like, that's really cool, and then it'll be back to the drawing board for the PS4/Xbox 720. Ugh!!

[ODogg]

rangerrick012 - that's so freakin' true man. EA seems to say "Trust us, we know what's best for you" instead of "What would you guys like to see to make the game better?". They need to re-think that particular interaction.

[KensaiKatai]

Quote: Originally Posted by pinolian

Every year it feels like innovation just for the sake of innovation; a new carrot to dangle so we football fans buy the game in August. The game flo thing and the my levels thing and Jedi Madden make me feel as if there is an exec at EA who has a kid who wants to play madden but its too hard for him, so they try all these different gimmicks so that that kid can feel like he knows what he is doing. Son: "I can't tell who is good and who isn't on my team" -Thats ok we will put big stupid icons under the players so you can tell what they do! "All Pro is too hard for me when I am doing X" -OK we will put in this thing call my levels, so that the game will get harder or easier for you as you go! We wont make you change and get better, the game will change for you son! "but daddy all these audibles are tied to different buttons, I cant remember em all!" Exec -OK.. well how about we put them all on the D-pad, so that way you go to one place to call an audible? It adds one extra step, but its ok you aren't umm fast enough to call one audible anyways right? Son: "Well what about all these stupid plays? I can't possibly figure out what play to call in all these game situations?! 3rd and 2, 1st and 10, what do I do?? I have never been able to figure that out!" - Alrighty son, we added something call Gameflo. It actually picks the play for you!! Son: Dad, do you think that next year we can have the game played for me, where all I do is press a button? Exec: Well son we already have that, its called one button play Son: wow.. What are you gonna do next year? Exec: I dunno son, I was hoping you would tell me..

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

If it was the economy and competition that explained Madden's falling numbers then how would one explain that other sports games are selling more each year? The Show, FIFA and NHL all come to mind. Madden doesn't need to capture the COD/Halo market. It's a completely different demographic. Madden needs to capture their own market that they've lost with the poor design choices and implementation in years past.

Part of a greater truth here..

Quote: Originally Posted by johnprestonevans

This is almost a business, sales and marketing debate more than it is about the game itself. Lets put the features, gameplay and presentation specifics aside for a minute. Let's not fool ourselves, gaming is business. If you are in charge of Madden (I mean the CEO of EA Tiburon) - the guy that is counted on to make the most money for the company, how would you honestly go about it? What would your strategy be? Basic logic says to do research first. Determine your key demographic (who's your main customer). Then define the main issues with your product. Then brainstorm solutions. Pick a couple that are manageable and implement those big fixes. Evaluate customer response. Rinse and repeat. This is exactly what NHL did a few years back and since 07 the game (and its sales) has grown considerably better each year. Why? Because they had a vision of creating the most authentic hockey game they could make. It started with the "skill stick" controls and has snowballed into a very polished playing sports game. (Not perfect yet, but its getting there). They have a longterm vision and plan in place and that is why we dont see things like "Jedi Gretzky" or "Line Change Flow" in a game that is trying to be an immersive NHL experience. You cannot please everyone all of the time. In the marketplace you're going to have those casual people, the diehards and everything in between. I would venture a guess that diehard fans or moderately interested NFL watchers who are gamers are your core audience. This is where most of your sales are coming from. Sure there are millions of potential buyers out there outside of this demographic, but in order to get them you have to a) make your product appear more accessible/approachable, and b) help them understand and want to enjoy the sport of football. The problem is that by concentrating on this un-captured market, you are damaging the integrity of what draws your main audience in. The ridiculous slogan "Simpler. Quicker. Deeper." just doesn't make a lick of sense. By definition it is an oxymoron. Simpler and Deeper are polar opposites. It's a foolhardy marketing smokescreen to try to attract EVERYONE to the game. Its effectively trying to convince you that we made the game a lot easier and faster for that casual audience, but we also somehow made it more authentic and comprehensive for the guys that already play it. It's just not possible. Just as most movies and music that attempts to appeal to the widest audience possible at the expense of a focused story or sound, you end up putting out generic garbage. I feel that Madden needs to decide which direction it's going in and stick to it. Whether it be 8 year olds who don't know how to play football, or 25 year olds that love the game and want it pushed to more realism. There is a feature in all sports games that cushion their accessibility. It's called a difficulty level. Im perplexed by EA's apparent change of focus this year because instead of pushing ahead with presentation improvements and really fixing their horrible commentary, they spent their time and energy on dumbing down the game in the hopes of boosting their lagging sales. It will be interesting to see how the final product turns out. I really hope it's a lot better than what im reading and seeing so far. EA does not have me (an admitted hardcore Madden / NFL fan) in their wallet this year simply because of the NFL monopoly. I'm very happy with NCAA Football 11. If anything, a year like this may help EA refocus and maintain a more hardcore, polished and authentic NFL game. Time will tell.

One of the best posts i've ever read regarding the current state of this franchise, seriously. My opinion is in tune with yours and ODoggs. There's a lot of words here but i feel they all were poignant and more importantly, necessary at this juncture. Saying what needs to be said in words better than i could hope to say it. I really hope and pray that the people who 'matter' will read this, that could go for this whole thread but this post specifically, stuck out to me.

Well done OS, for giving us a forum that allows constructive discussions like this to take place. I don't mean to be patronizing, i'm just tired of our words going to waste.

In my industry (the music business) i completely understand and can relate to how an old business idea or model can negatively effect a 'head-honcho's' lack of 'vision' or 'focus'. It really comes down to ego, entitlement, and arrogance with most people, but i won't get into it the 'psychology' of it. We can just stick to the 'business' of it for now, there's plenty that needs to be learned by all parties. Lack of direct communication is also a big part of the problem.